Trading picks

[Resolute 14]

All of the argumentation about "potentially trading the next Brodie or Gaudreau" for Bollig made me interested to see what happened to these picks that get moved. This isn't necessarily meant to act as a defence or indictment of any of these deals, but merely to fulfill curiousity. I am focusing on the lower round picks (3-7) as we all know the value of first and second rounders.

2012-13
Wideman trade: The 5th rounder we surrendered was sent to Winnipeg, and was turned into defenceman Tucker Poolman. Poolman was 15-26-41 in 58 games for Omaha of the USHL.

Karlsson trade: Chicago gave us a seventh rounder. We used it on John Gilmour. 5-13-18 in 39 games for Providence College this year.

Comeau trade: The fifth rounder we received became Eric Roy. 11-33-44 in 66 games for Brandon in the WHL as a 19-year-old defenceman.


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2011-12
Erixon Trade: The 5th rounder we added turned into Shane McColgan. Played five games in the AHL after his 2011-12 junior season. Bounced around the WHL since, and was demoted to the BCHL last year.

PL3 trade: New Jersey selected Graham Black with the 5th rounder. Graduated from junior this year with a 34-63-97 season as an overage player with Swift Current. Played two games with Albany in the AHL to end the year.

Bork-Cammy trade: The 5th rounder we acquired was Ryan Culkin. He split this season with Quebec and Drummondville, 8-42-50 as an overage player.


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2010-11
Karlsson trade: The 6th rounder we gave to San Jose turned into a German defenceman, Konrad Abeltshauser. He played his first pro season this year, finishing 6-15-21 in 57 games for Worcester.

Modin trade: The ThrasherJets sent the 7th round pick to San Jose, who selected forward Colin Blackwell. He played two seasons of college hockey for Harvard, then disappeared off hockeydb after 2013. Nothing for nothing trade in the end.


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2009-10
First round swap with New Jersey: We acquired a third rounder in this trade (#84), which we subsequently sent to Los Angeles. That pick turned into Nicolas Deslauriers, who was later sent to Buffalo, and whom made his NHL debut this season. The picks we got back from LA in that deal were #74 Ryan Howse and #107. That pick was moved three times, eventually ending up with Florida. They chose Garrett Wilson, who has played three rather pedestrian seasons in the minors, but made his NHL debut this year with the Panthers, appearing in three games.

Bouwmeester trade: The pick we surrendered, #67, as part of the deal to acquire JayBo's rights turned into Josh Birkholz. The winger played four games in the AHL last year, but is otherwise trending into an ECHL nobody.

Keith Seabrook trade: we gave up "future considerations". Haven't the slightest clue what that turned into.

Stralman trade (I): The seventh rounder we got from Toronto as part of the deal that sent Primeau and a 2nd rounder east turned into Matt DeBlouw, college hockey nobody.

Stralman trade (II): The third rounder we acquired turned into Max Reinhart.

Boyd trade: For the right to dress Dustin Boyd in 18 games, the Predators gave us a fourth rounder that turned into Bill Arnold.

Never trade with the Grease: The Staios-Johnson debacle included our sending a 2011 3rd rounder north. That pick turned into Travis Ewanyk, who after suffering through four years as an Oil King was exiled to Oklahoma City this year. 7-5-12 in 68 games with 100PIM. Everything about this trade is no good.


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2008-09
Tanguay trade: While we acquired first and second round picks, we also gave up a fifth rounder that became Maxim Trunev. Trunev has gone on to enjoy a long and mediocre career in the KHL.

Jokinen trade: We didn't just give up Prust and a first rounder for Olli. We got a third round selection too! We sent it to Florida for the above mentioned Josh Birkoltz.

Lalande trade. Lalanade who? Apparently he was once a Flame. And apparently someone (Columbus) gave us a fourth rounder for him. Apparently we then sent it to Florida for the above mentioned Garrett Wilson.


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2007-08
Aucoin trade: We gave up Zyuzin and a nobody to get Aucoin and a 7th rounder. That pick became C. J. Severyn, who is carving an ECHL career out for himself.

Swap of first rounders: To drop a few spots in the 2007 draft, the Blues gave us a third rounder. We turned that into John Negrin. He's still having a rough go of it, as he appeared in only 16 AHL games this season. The swapped first rounders worked out well, however. The Blues took defenceman Ian Cole (113 NHL games, 3-8-11) with the #18 pick. At #24, we grabbed Mikael Backlund.

Vandermeer trade: Philly gave us a bottom pairing defenceman. We gave Philly a third round pick. Adam Morrison is an ECHL nobody, however.

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Picks (R3-7) that turned into NHLers

Dealt:
Nicholas Deslauriers: 17GP 1G 0A 1P 18PIM
Garrett Wilson: 3GP 0G 0A 0P 0PIM

Acquired:
Bill Arnold: 1GP 0G 0A 0P 0PIM
Max Reinhart: 19GP 1G 4A 5P 6PIM
John Negrin: 3GP 0G 1A 1P 2PIM

Also, if I am not getting the picks that both came and went confused, it appears we acquire as many picks as we give up. From 2007 to 2013:
Out: 3rd: 4; 4th: 1; 5th: 3; 6th: 1; 7th: 1
In: 3rd: 5; 4th: 3; 5th: 3; 6th: 0; 7th: 3

[_Q_]

So as I presumed, 3 rounders and later generally turn into nobodies.

Though to accurately do an exercise like this, you need to look at players drafted later than the traded picks. You also have to assume Flames drafting and development is 100% perfect.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So as I presumed, 3 rounders and later generally turn into nobodies.

Though to accurately do an exercise like this, you need to look at players drafted later than the traded picks. You also have to assume Flames drafting and development is 100% perfect.

That's funny, because I read through that and came to a "glass half full" conclusion. There are some decent prospects listed there.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That's funny, because I read through that came to a glass half full conclusion. There are some decent prospects listed there.

That crossed my mind as well. We actually seem to be getting the better of the deals - albeit slightly. Of course, that is also only comparing a specific subset of picks against each other, not the overall value of the trades.

_Q_ - I don't think we need to worry about the Flames having a 100% development rate for this comparison, as this list includes picks in and out, and nobody has such a skill at development. That remains an even test.

Looking at picks taken after requires making assumptions on the part of the management teams in place at the time of the draft. Certainly one could make a "could have had..." argument, but that is not an exercise I see as being terribly useful since the same could be done for literally every draft pick, ever.

[GGG]

You are missing the cammy trade which I believe montreal turned into fucale.

I perefer to look at draft picks like schrodengers cat. You get 1% of a star, 5% of a good player, 18% of a roster player, and a 74% of nothing.

Until you open the box you dont know so its not fair to compare it really to the results but on balance you should be able to trade away a lot of late picks and not get burned before one turns into a Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Keith Seabrook trade: we gave up "future considerations". Haven't the slightest clue what that turned into.

Future considerations turned out to be the Flames 7th round pick in 2012 (195th overall)

Christain Djoos
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=33201

Had a strong performance at the last WJC. IIRC

[neo45]

One thing I noticed is that I like our late round prospects way more than the ones other teams have taken. I think our scouting department has finally come together after years of hard work by Sutter, Button and co. Feaster probably deserves some credit as well

Losing the senior OHL scout to retirement hurts. I don't know who exactly he discovered but late round steals like Prust, Brodie etc can probably be credited to him

[getbak]

The best part of the Keith Seabrook trade was the number of people who thought the Flames had somehow just acquired Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=76909


July 2009, a time when people thought Darryl Sutter was actually a wizard.


The Flames should have acquired this guy to include in the future considerations: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=30854

[TheDebaser]

I wonder if a team would be better off if they made a point of always trading their 3+ round picks for nhl talent. I bet you if somehow advanced stats guys dug into that a bit they would find some pretty intriguing stuff.

That said, when you do hit in the later rounds, it can be a total boon to a hockey club. Where would the Rangers have been for the past ten years if they decided to trade their 6th rounder instead of drafting Lundqvist?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GGG

You are missing the cammy trade which I believe montreal turned into fucale.

As I said, I specifically didn't bother with first and second round picks. We all know those have high value.

[timbit]

Going back a little further...
Didn't Calgary trade for Jason Wiemer from TB and give up a 3rd rd pick?

I believe TB chose Brad Richards with that pick.