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Old 12-01-2019, 10:16 PM   #6181
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That is more than Stone returned significantly imo so I disagree. Bennett >>Lindberg, Valimaki=Brannstrom, Flames 1st/2nd > Vegas 2nd

Replace Bennett with Jankowski or replace Valimaki with Kylington imo.
Not sure Valimaki holds the same value as Brannstrom, as he's missing an entire year of development to injury. I also don't really think 20-30 point penalty magnet Sam Bennett holds quite as much value around the league as we'd like to believe he does.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:23 PM   #6182
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Not sure Valimaki holds the same value as Brannstrom, as he's missing an entire year of development to injury. I also don't really think 20-30 point penalty magnet Sam Bennett holds quite as much value around the league as we'd like to believe he does.
Oscar Lindberg has zero value though. 28 year old 20pt player much different than a former top 5 pick under 25
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:48 AM   #6183
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Nothing earth shattering, but Eklund says flames are considering moving Gaudreau, and that nj & Philly are the obvious teams to look at.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:13 AM   #6184
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Gaudreau dealt for the Devils or Flyers 2020 1st plus an additional piece or two could be tempting...

For instance, from New Jersey, Ty Smith, Fabian Zetterlund and Jesper Boqvist

Lots to choose from on Philadelphia too, Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee, Oskar Lindblom and Isaac Ratcliffe

Hall - Monahan - Tkachuk
Boqvist - Lindholm - Zetterlund
Dubé - Backlund - Mangiapane

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Farabee - Frost - Tkachuk
Dubé - Backlund - Mangiapane
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:20 AM   #6185
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Gaudreau dealt for the Devils or Flyers 2020 1st plus an additional piece or two could be tempting...

For instance, from New Jersey, Ty Smith, Fabian Zetterlund and Jesper Boqvist

Lots to choose from on Philadelphia too, Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee, Oskar Lindblom and Isaac Ratcliffe

Hall - Monahan - Tkachuk
Boqvist - Lindholm - Zetterlund
Dubé - Backlund - Mangiapane

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Farabee - Frost - Tkachuk
Dubé - Backlund - Mangiapane
To me, this is the reality of a Gaudreau trade: you're getting futures, not win now pieces.

Trading gaudreau is the start of a rebuild IMO, so moving him needs to necessitate further moves of valuable pieces that won't be here 3-5 years from now.

Bridging Tkachuk just to trade Gaudreau the next season would be a tough pill to swallow, but it would take some of the sting out of not moving a 1st rounder and d prospect for stone if it means the organization is serious about building through the draft for 3-5 years.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:36 AM   #6186
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In my opinion, flames cannot afford to ride this core to mediocrity, and hit the rebuilding stage when the new building opens.

They are much better off giving up a little early on this core in the hopes of being a contender when the new building and its costs to fans hit.

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Old 12-02-2019, 10:29 AM   #6187
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To me, this is the reality of a Gaudreau trade: you're getting futures, not win now pieces.

Trading gaudreau is the start of a rebuild IMO, so moving him needs to necessitate further moves of valuable pieces that won't be here 3-5 years from now.

Bridging Tkachuk just to trade Gaudreau the next season would be a tough pill to swallow, but it would take some of the sting out of not moving a 1st rounder and d prospect for stone if it means the organization is serious about building through the draft for 3-5 years.
Why start now? I personally have a hard time seeing this happen under the current leadership.

I expect this team is looking at the Avs as an example of how to rebound from a poor season. Question is, who is our MacKinnon?
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:28 AM   #6188
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I cannot believe some people want Hall on this team.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:35 AM   #6189
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Well look at it this way, ignore age & contract for a moment, who is the better hockey player, and who would you prefer as your #1 star forward.

Unfortunately, i don't care to even answer, as for yet another generation of the flames franchise, the answer to who the best forward on the team continues to be an elite winger and not a center. It's been decades since the franchise has got that right unfortunately.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:38 AM   #6190
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Well look at it this way, ignore age & contract for a moment, who is the better hockey player, and who would you prefer as your #1 star forward.

Unfortunately, i don't care to even answer, as for yet another generation of the flames franchise, the answer to who the best forward on the team continues to be an elite winger and not a center. It's been decades since the franchise has got that right unfortunately.
It's not like it's a conscious idea of "lets build around an elite winger". You draft the guys that you think are going to turn into good players. Requires some significant luck to find an elite number 1 center.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:40 AM   #6191
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Originally Posted by David Struch View Post
Gaudreau dealt for the Devils or Flyers 2020 1st plus an additional piece or two could be tempting...

For instance, from New Jersey, Ty Smith, Fabian Zetterlund and Jesper Boqvist

Lots to choose from on Philadelphia too, Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee, Oskar Lindblom and Isaac Ratcliffe

Hall - Monahan - Tkachuk
Boqvist - Lindholm - Zetterlund
Dubé - Backlund - Mangiapane

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Farabee - Frost - Tkachuk
Dubé - Backlund - Mangiapane
This just doesn't look tempting to me at all. Quality > Quantity.

Flames can still build through the draft while icing a competitive team. You don't need to blow it up to draft well.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:41 AM   #6192
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I would like Hall, but he is not a priority for the Flames offense.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:45 AM   #6193
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I would focus more on adding a top 6 RW to this group instead looking for a swap.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:47 AM   #6194
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The player that Philly fans think has value, but they are willing to part with because of a big cap hit and length of contract, is Jacob Voracek. I think that the ship has sailed on Farabee and Lindblom, as they have been on Hayes and Couturier's lines respectively, all year.

So the ask from the Phillys would be something like Gaudreau and Backlund (salary balance and they can use him) for Voracek, Frost (I think this guy is going to be really good), Ratcliffe (wildcard) and a 1st.

You're honestly not going to get more than that from them, and it would be a shakeup trade for both teams. You would have to take a core player, and that means Voracek or JVR (gross). It also means giving up more than Gaudreau to balance salaries, and they don't need defense and won't take Frolik or Lucic.

I would still consider it, but any trade is going to be full of massive question marks.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:49 AM   #6195
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Originally Posted by bubbsy View Post
Well look at it this way, ignore age & contract for a moment, who is the better hockey player, and who would you prefer as your #1 star forward.

Unfortunately, i don't care to even answer, as for yet another generation of the flames franchise, the answer to who the best forward on the team continues to be an elite winger and not a center. It's been decades since the franchise has got that right unfortunately.
Love how you phrase this in a way that the Flames don't know that. Too bad they couldn't just snap their fingers and walk away with Nathan Mackinnon......what idiots, right?

One thing is for sure is they better draft Quinton Byfeild this summer. No excuses.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:54 AM   #6196
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It's not like it's a conscious idea of "lets build around an elite winger". You draft the guys that you think are going to turn into good players. Requires some significant luck to find an elite number 1 center.
Or patience to go through the required bottoming-out process required to pick at the top of the draft, which we only really did for one year - and unfortunately, through bad luck with the draft and horrid player development, didn't work out for us.

This organization's rush to get back to the middle is probably the most depressing thing about Calgary Flames fandom.

To be more specific, these were stupid, short-sighted trades:

Trade #3 - Jun 24, 2017

To NYI
- 2018 1st round pick (12th overall - Noah Dobson)
- 2018 2nd round pick (43rd overall - Ruslan Iskhakov)
- 2019 2nd round pick (57th overall - Samuel Bolduc)

To CGY:
- Travis Hamonic

Trade #2 - February 27th, 2017

To OTT:
- 2017 2nd round pick (#47 overall - Alex Formenton)
- Jyrki Jokipakka

To CGY:
- Mike Kostka
- Curtis Lazar

Trade #1 - June 24th, 2016

To STL:
- 2016 2nd round pick (35th overall - Jordan Kyrou)
- 2018 3rd round pick (conditional, conditions not met)

To CGY:
- Brian Elliott

All of these quality picks spent on low-end players. I don't mean that as a slight to Hamonic, but he's a 2nd pairing defenceman and wasn't going to be slotted anywhere but there - how do you pay that price for that roster spot? It was a trade to create a shortcut. Wasting that pick on Lazar is baffling, and bringing in Elliott at the cost of a 2nd to be exactly what Elliott had always been (bad), is a disaster.

It's one of the reasons why I'm in favour of spending a 1st and a 2nd, or hell - two 1st rounders on Taylor Hall, because at least we'd be getting top-end talent (assuming an extension is in place) for an extended period of time. That way we at least know the Flames won't be pissing away good picks on inconsequential talent levels.

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Old 12-02-2019, 12:01 PM   #6197
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Or patience to go through the required bottoming-out process required to pick at the top of the draft, which we only really did for one year - and unfortunately, through bad luck with the draft and horrid player development, didn't work out for us.

This organization's rush to get back to the middle is probably the most depressing thing about Calgary Flames fandom.

To be more specific, these were stupid, short-sighted trades:

Trade #3 - Jun 24, 2017

To NYI
- 2018 1st round pick (12th overall - Noah Dobson)
- 2018 2nd round pick (43rd overall - Ruslan Iskhakov)
- 2019 2nd round pick (57th overall - Samuel Bolduc)

To CGY:
- Travis Hamonic

Trade #2 - February 27th, 2017

To OTT:
- 2017 2nd round pick (#47 overall - Alex Formenton)
- Jyrki Jokipakka

To CGY:
- Mike Kostka
- Curtis Lazar

Trade #1 - June 24th, 2016

To STL:
- 2016 2nd round pick (35th overall - Jordan Kyrou)
- 2018 3rd round pick (conditional, conditions not met)

To CGY:
- Brian Elliott
100% accurate. I've always said I hated that we are a team always trying to build a team to fight for a playoff spot but instead should try to build a team that fights for a cup. I get that people say "anything can happen in playoffs" but more times than not a good team goes deep in the playoffs.

You unload UFA's, you unload guys you think won't be part of your core in the future and if the current guys you have can squeak into the playoffs, imagine what the team would be like with addition of future prospects.
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:08 PM   #6198
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100% accurate. I've always said I hated that we are a team always trying to build a team to fight for a playoff spot but instead should try to build a team that fights for a cup. I get that people say "anything can happen in playoffs" but more times than not a good team goes deep in the playoffs.



You unload UFA's, you unload guys you think won't be part of your core in the future and if the current guys you have can squeak into the playoffs, imagine what the team would be like with addition of future prospects.

Might as well wish for a unicorn because the Flames have never operated this way. “Just make the playoffs and anything can happen” appears to be a mission statement that comes from somewhere above the GM.
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:11 PM   #6199
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Love how you phrase this in a way that the Flames don't know that. Too bad they couldn't just snap their fingers and walk away with Nathan Mackinnon......what idiots, right?

One thing is for sure is they better draft Quinton Byfeild this summer. No excuses.
no, I am not accusing them of purposely trying to build around wingers. I am saying that not having a real #1 elite centre, in close to 25 years (?!?), probably has a lot to do with the franchise never really growing into a contender over that period of time.

I am also suggesting that gaudreau/hall debate is interesting and all, but neither actually turn this team into a contender either.
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:11 PM   #6200
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Ottawa selecting Formenton in the Lazar trade sure is making that deal look bad.
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