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Old 11-01-2019, 09:45 PM   #5161
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Read it again, I said a signed Hall long term
So the Devils extract substantially more value for Hall than the Sens did for Stone?

Because the Devils allow the Flames to negotiate a deal with Hall before the trade it then triples his value?

Letís make sure we trade a signed Brodie or Hamonic when we move them so we can get twice as much.
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:24 PM   #5162
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I keep saying it, but looking for a value-type player who can play above their paygrade is not what we're looking for here. We need a legit top line star and one with leadership at that. There don't appear to be any on the market, aside from Hall. He can score and he has wheels. I'd do a deal if he can be locked up. Value guys like Benn won't work out. This team needs scoring, skating and leadership, not a reclamation project, or someone to play on the second line or below.
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:29 PM   #5163
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Tkachuk - Couturier - Lindholm
Hall - Monahan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Quine
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:39 PM   #5164
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lol in other new, Dougie has more points than the Flames leading scorer by 3 points and 2 lesser games.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:25 PM   #5165
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The Flames offloaded a player they could buy out if pressed. Now we have a boat anchor that could keep the Nimitz in place during a hurricane. One of the worst trades in the history of the team.
Drama Queeeeeeeen.

Worst trades in the history of the team, get a grip on reality mate.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:45 PM   #5166
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I think the thought of trading Gaudreau is both laughable and embarrassing. We have a 3 year window with the current in their prime years core... for just this one time can we please just finally go out and add that last great piece.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:58 PM   #5167
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I think the thought of trading Gaudreau is both laughable and embarrassing. We have a 3 year window with the current in their prime years core... for just this one time can we please just finally go out and add that last great piece.
I really think we should have paid the price for Stone last year. I would seriously consider giving up a guy like Valimaki or Dube to get Hall.
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Old 11-02-2019, 01:06 AM   #5168
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I think the thought of trading Gaudreau is both laughable and embarrassing. We have a 3 year window with the current in their prime years core... for just this one time can we please just finally go out and add that last great piece.


Why is it laughable and embarassing? Itís becoming apparent the real untouchables on this team are Tkachuk, Lindholm and Hanifin. Gaudreau is elite donít get me wrong but if you can add a young top C for him you do it 10/10 times to improve this roster.


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Old 11-02-2019, 01:34 AM   #5169
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Why is it laughable and embarassing? Itís becoming apparent the real untouchables on this team are Tkachuk, Lindholm and Hanifin. Gaudreau is elite donít get me wrong but if you can add a young top C for him you do it 10/10 times to improve this roster.


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Old 11-02-2019, 02:24 AM   #5170
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Gaudreau is a catalyst. They're pretty hard to find. People get a little obsessed with the #1 center idea because those catalyst type players tend to be a center. The Flames situation just happens to not be the usual, where the winger is the straw instead of the center. I think you have to be completely sure he's going to ditch the Flames after his contract before you look at selling him.
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:40 AM   #5171
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The Flames offloaded a player they could buy out if pressed. Now we have a boat anchor that could keep the Nimitz in place during a hurricane. One of the worst trades in the history of the team.
Ownership got tired of paying through the nose for Brad's mistakes. Good money after bad to fix his follies and I guess they said they would not do it anymore.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:29 AM   #5172
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I think the thought of trading Gaudreau is both laughable and embarrassing. We have a 3 year window with the current in their prime years core... for just this one time can we please just finally go out and add that last great piece.
The only thing standing between us and that last great piece is Lucic's contract. Neal was supposed to be that piece. Oh well.

The issue now is whether we can somehow lose that horrible contract in time to add before we have to trade Gaudreau and Monahan as their deals expire. Looks unlikely, to be honest.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:50 AM   #5173
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Ownership got tired of paying through the nose for Brad's mistakes. Good money after bad to fix his follies and I guess they said they would not do it anymore.
And this deal fixes that how? Lucic is owed $19M through the remainder of his contract. Neal is owed $23M. Neal was a player you could trade because he came with no clauses. Neal was also a player you could buyout. Lucic is just $20M in dead cap space. Can't buy him out, can't trade him, can't send him to the minors. They are stuck with a player that can't play at the NHL level anymore. Can't. Get. Rid. Of. Him. One of the worst moves I've seen. Seriously, if the Oilers or Canucks made a trade like this you guys would be crowing about it, and rightly so. At a time when this team needs to add another quality player, they have $5.25M worth of dead cap space preventing them from doing so. Just a flat out stupid move.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:56 AM   #5174
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And this deal fixes that how? Lucic is owed $19M through the remainder of his contract. Neal is owed $23M. Neal was a player you could trade because he came with no clauses. Neal was also a player you could buyout. Lucic is just $20M in dead cap space. Can't buy him out, can't trade him, can't send him to the minors. They are stuck with a player that can't play at the NHL level anymore. Can't. Get. Rid. Of. Him. One of the worst moves I've seen. Seriously, if the Oilers or Canucks made a trade like this you guys would be crowing about it, and rightly so. At a time when this team needs to add another quality player, they have $5.25M worth of dead cap space preventing them from doing so. Just a flat out stupid move.
I do not disagree, it was a terrible trade and I think Brad Treliving is a below average gm. I was just opining that ownership did not want to buy out this mistake, they were fine with Raymond, Bouma, Stone but not Neal. When Brad was told this he had an option of seeing if year 2 was any better for Neal or trading for a player that everyone involved in hockey knew was no longer a NHL player. Treliving chose the latter.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:42 AM   #5175
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I’m up and down about Treliving. He has been pretty good in a lot of ways but some of his deals are just awful and he should have been saving money for a legitimate free agent like Stone. Instead he couldn’t help himself and couldn’t wait. The result was a useless Neal and now cap hell.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:29 AM   #5176
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Treliving is not an issue. He probably realizes his mistake in the Neal deal, but regardless of it, he's shown he's astute. He's not in love with any given player and can move on with them as fast as he acquired them, so from a bias perspective I don't believe he believes his own bs when it's time to admit a mistake and that's huge for a person in a leadership position. So at the end of the day, I think he's a definite keeper.


Gaudreau is a keeper no matter what, simply based on his contract. He's a top line player on any team, and that contract solidifies that he should not be traded in a cap world. You can't get value like that on a top line. My problem with him is he's not a franchise player some would make him out to be. Again, I think that's the player we're missing. But I also think there's a coaching problem with the players not interpreting the system well enough. Guys are just not making passes because they're not getting acquainted with proper positioning so it becomes a solo game, in hopes someone grabs a rebound. It's just not the way the game is played anymore. Now the game is more fluid, pass-pass-pass-shoot, rather than pass-solo effort-shot-rebound. To me that's glaring this year, and IMO, that's on the coach. Additionally, I'd like to get rid of some bottom two line depth in favour of more scoring, but I'm sure several teams would like to do that.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:44 AM   #5177
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it was a terrible trade and I think Brad Treliving is a below average gm.
No way! Why is this the first we are hearing of it?
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:23 AM   #5178
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Trading either of Gaudreau or Monahan would be beyond frustrating from my perspective. Top 25 in the league players at under 7 million each?? Madness. We need to go out and add one more true top 6 player as both Backlund and Frolik are top 6 imposters (not a diss as both have performed admirably IMO) and adding another player whoís at the same tier of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm would make this team supremely hard to defend against.

For me Hall is the biggest target; Monahan is criminally under appreciated at times here and Backlund is able to eat big minutes so with wingers like Gaudreau, Hall, Tkachuk and Lindholm Iíd have no concerns about our top 2 Centers in Monahan and Backlund. I also would be inclined to try Bennett on the 2nd line Center spot at some point to see if he could finally tap into that top 5 draft pedigree with Hall and Tkachuk on his flanks.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Hall - Backlund - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Ryan - Bennett
Lucic - Jankowski - Quine

Incredibly deep at the wings with a good mix for our Center depth and wingers able to take strongside draws on both the 1st and 3rd lines.

Obviously Frolik has been excluded from the equation in the above and I feel like he would have to be part of the deal even if salary has to be retained in order for a deal to work.

Brodie, Frolik (50%), Dube, Gillies, 2021 1st, 2020 3rd for Hall feels like it could be at least considered as it gives the Devils two more prominent players they could flip at the deadline for even more futures to add to Dube, Gillies, 21 1st and 20 3rd.

I donít know I just feel like itís finally time for this team to step up and go for it and our 2nd line is clearly missing that one last ingredient to become extremely dangerous giving us two top lines to somehow defend against. My two cents.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:45 AM   #5179
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Brodie, Frolik (50%), Dube, Gillies, 2021 1st, 2020 3rd for Hall feels like it could be at least considered as it gives the Devils two more prominent players they could flip at the deadline for even more futures to add to Dube, Gillies, 21 1st and 20 3rd.
Those are not the type of deals that get you a guy like Hall. It's just a bunch of stuff with only two actual decent pieces (Dube and 2021 1st).
Brodie: Pending free agent that they could flip I guess. Let's say he's a worth a 2nd
Frolik: Pure cap dump. No or negative value
Gillies: Zero value
2020 3rd: Meh.

So basically it's Dube, 2021 1st and 2nd (Brodie value).

Dube is a fine prospect but probably tops out as a good 3rd liner.

The conversation probably starts with Valimaki+1st+2nd (Brodie)

A bunch of stuff.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:50 AM   #5180
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Even still if the conversation starts with Vali the Flames need to pony up; the window is now and we missed that opportunity with Iginla even though we did attempt when we traded for Jokinen.
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