[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[howard_the_duck]

Let's put it this way. Treliving would be playing a very dangerous game if he were to lie about that, because he'd have to know Fox and his agent/representation would refute the claim.

I can't imagine it's just a PR move from the Flames to sell the deal, that would be terrible asset management.

If Treliving is saying they couldn't sign him, then I take that to be truth vs putting stock into what the player/agent are saying.

[Strange Brew]

Waddell 99.9% certain they will sign him. That is quite a prospect he just picked up.

[Ashasx]

I'm pessimistic about this trade but I really don't think Treliving would lie about this. I had been expecting Fox to be traded at any moment once we knew he was going back to Harvard for his junior year.

[devo22]

yeah I highly doubt Treliving would lie about this. The answer Fox gave is also super vague - "I never said anything about my plans" ... well that's convincing. I'm sure that from the discussions with his advisor, Treliving got pretty a good read of the situation.

Waddells 99.9% also don't change anything for me.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm pessimistic about this trade but I really don't think Treliving would lie about this. I had been expecting Fox to be traded at any moment once we knew he was going back to Harvard for his senior year.

He's not. He still has two years left.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It could be a situation where Treliving kept leaving him voice mails and Fox wasn't replying. Brad finally got the hint.

lol

Treliving said it was the agent that left them uncertain. Here it is Fox saying HE didn't say that.

Plausible deniability.

[868904]

It doesn't really matter what Fox or his agent said. Until he is signed, there is uncertainty and the value is diminished.

it also doesn't matter if Fox eventually does sign with Carolina, because the fact is at the time of the trade, he was NOT signed.

If you want to quantify the asset, you could argue that if Fox was signed, he might be a mid to late 1st rounder.

Unsigned and with uncertainty, maybe he's a 2nd rounder.

So you look at the trade as:

3 years of Hamilton
1 year of Ferland (or, at the trade deadline, a 2nd round pick?)
2nd round pick

for

multi years of Hanifin
multi years of Lindholm

So it's Hamilton and two seconds

for Hanifin and Lindholm.

Value wise, that seems pretty fair to me.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by getbak

He's not. He still has two years left.

meant his junior year, apologies.

[Enoch Root]

If Fox does in fact sign with Carolina, good on them. But I'll believe it when I see it. Also, it doesn't change the likelihood of the Flames having signed him.

[GioforPM]

It's also worth something to Calgary going forward to show that they won't be played with and if you give the impression you won't sign to create some sort of urgency the Flames might say "OK, fine".

[GoJetsGo]

Maybe Bradley really is a slimy rat?

[calumniate]

Tom Fox it is!

[djsFlames]

These eastern college kids.
This loophole has to be closed. Shows the character of guys like johnny for honoring the NHL team that called his name even if the location wouldn't have been his first choice.

[tvp2003]

There is a reason why Fox has a family advisor. He's smart enough to know that.

That said, I'm surprised Waddell is putting that number at 99.9%. Not sure how Carolina's situation would be that much better than the Flames, but so be it. Hope Adam Fox signs an ELC after this year and that Carolina subsequently packs up and moves to Quebec...

[devo22]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

These eastern college kids.
This loophole has to be closed. Shows the character of guys like johnny for honoring the NHL team that called his name even if the location wouldn't have been his first choice.

but it's not a loophole. Teams retain a college player's rights for four years before he's a UFA. A CHL kid would also be a UFA after four years (his team obtains his rights for two years, then he'd go back into the draft, his new team would have two years again).

[oldschoolcalgary]

sounds like Fox is simply playing nice with his new team's local media...

BT resisted the Islanders push to include Fox in the Hamonic deal... so the about face, imo, meant that BT had enough information to make an informed judgement about Fox's chances to sign here...

considering the flames didn't off load Johnny, Janko or Gilles makes me think that there was a difference in the discussions with those advisers compared to Fox's

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Who do you suppose plays center on that line?

Aho. And I expect him to.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

There is a reason why Fox has a family advisor. He's smart enough to know that.

That said, I'm surprised Waddell is putting that number at 99.9%. Not sure how Carolina's situation would be that much better than the Flames, but so be it. Hope Adam Fox signs an ELC after this year and that Carolina subsequently packs up and moves to Quebec...

Waddell just traded for the kid's rights - of course he is going to speak positively of his chances of signing him.

"We just traded two of our core pieces, but we acquired the rights to Fox, who I seriously doubt will ever sign with us!"

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Waddell just traded for the kid's rights - of course he is going to speak positively of his chances of signing him.

"We just traded two of our core pieces, but we acquired the rights to Fox, who I seriously doubt will ever sign with us!"

Yeah, "99.9%" is just an idiom. He's very sure, or at least saying he's very sure. But readers of the quote *might* misinterpret it and think that Carolina scored a prospect.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by 868904

Ferland's skill is severely underrated. I don't think he has hit his career high.

i think most NHL execs would take Lindholm over Ferland because like Peters says, Lindholm touches so many parts of the game.

Lindholm is much more consistent a player but I think Ferland has the higher skill when it comes to offense.

Flames fans who hate the trade keep overlooking the player control aspect. Ferland is UFA next season. Lindholm will be under multi year control. The hats the big thing for me that tips it in favour for the Flames, they get more controlled asset at a premium position.

I selfishly hope Ferland doesn't like it in Carolina and signs back in Cakgary next summer.

All this discussion in the Reaves thread about needing a tougher player who can actually play....they had that in Ferland. OK, not as intimidating but very physical. He wasn't consistent but was improving every year and I don't think we saw the best of him yet. Supposedly there were concerns about his next contract but I don't recall any discussion of that on this board before the trade, but suddenly it's a huge issue.... Last time I checked it was a good thing for players to get better and if they deserve to be paid then better you pay your own than pay a premium for someone else's. I'm just having a tough time with that rationale for trading him when he was such a unique and useful piece for the Flames.