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Old 03-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #41
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So how do they do this?

They can't have two more ceremonies as both players already had one. Do they do a joint release as apologize for the two tier system? Or just a politically correct announcement of moving the players up in status?

I'm glad it's being looked at, but its not easy to wiggle out from under.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:20 AM   #42
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So how do they do this?

They can't have two more ceremonies as both players already had one. Do they do a joint release as apologize for the two tier system? Or just a politically correct announcement of moving the players up in status?

I'm glad it's being looked at, but its not easy to wiggle out from under.
I think just a politically correct announcement, and then one day we show up and the Banner's match those of Iginla, Vernon, and MacDonald.

No need for a big celebration or ceremony. Just an apology, a press release, and change the banners.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:20 AM   #43
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Both things seem petty. If MacInnis and Nieuwendyk went on to do other things with other teams, fine. That's life. They still gave you some of their best years and got your organization to the top of the mountain, and they had to do it against the Gretzky Oilers.

Retire their numbers.

Theo, look. Everyone knows what Theo's deal is. Everyone knows the obstacles he's overcome. You take the good with the bad. Say 'we're retiring your number on November 14th, be here by 4:30'. Fleury makes his money as a public speaker now, and from what I've heard in interviews, doesn't seem financially strapped.

Again, for 2 and 14, they're already basically retired. Nobody wears them, nobody would. Unlike 25, which apparently goes to any scrub who needs a shirt. Whatever you want to say about Nieuwendyk, he did get you Iginla. So if you're going to honor him anyway, just take 25 out of circulation.
I'm not saying they are right - I'm saying what I think the holdup is. But with Theo, I think it would depend on what his ask is. I really don't think he has as much dough as you'd suspect. Living off speaking engagements isn't the steadiest of incomes and his other ventures have failed.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:31 AM   #44
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The flames with some intellectual honesty finally.

I can't help myself.
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How does the number of playoff games the Bruins won *this last season* have anything to do with their number of draft picks in the last three calendar years?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:35 AM   #45
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Nobody else deserves to have their number retired. Leave 9, 12 and 30 up there.

MacInnis is great but he's a Blue for life, not a Flame. Fleury needs to make amends with the organization before they'll retire his number, way too high of a chance he'll go off the rails and turn his speech into an expletive filled rant. Kipper...I don't know. I could go either way honestly. I think you could make some good arguments for and against.

Let's not make retiring a number a joke. It should only be for the best of the best who spent a considerable time of their career in Calgary, their prime years, and had a significant impact on the franchise.

I would also want to look ahead. Gio is likely a shoe in. Whole career in Calgary, Captain, etc. Johnny and Monny would both be candidates if they sign another contract after this one. How many numbers do we really want retired?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:35 AM   #46
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I think that the FaF was created because the team wanted to honour MacInnis but were a little bit pissed that he has associated himself more with the Blues. The other guys we retired like Lanny, Vernon and now Iggy - they are true Calgary Flames. Lanny and Vernon have been active ambassadors in our community after their career and Iggy's the greatest Flame of all time. I think those three associate themselves with the team and in turn the team associates with them. I think it was a bit petty to isolate MacInnis like that and after a few years now, the team probably realizes it.

Niewendyk is perfect for the Forever a Flame program. He was an elite player and a fantastic Flame but I never really saw him as the face of the franchise, etc.. If we didn't have the FaF, I doubt we would have retired his number.

Anyway, I'm glad they're considering getting rid of the FaF. It was a bad idea from the start.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:36 AM   #47
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Fleury and MacInnis are my main two. I would be for Lanny as well. Fleury led the team for a long time and didn't have much of a supporting cast. He is also like Iginla in that despite on other teams briefly, he will always be synonymous with the Flames.

MacInnis will be remembered by many outside of Calgary as a Blues player, but his time in Calgary was well spent and his character was never in question. Lanny is iconic and while agree his contribution on the ice is somewhat exaggerated by his legend. But don't underestimate the effect he has had on the franchise both on and off the ice. He brought a lot of respectability to the franchise and has been serving it ever since.

Nieuwendyk can take a Nieuwen-hike IMO.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:37 AM   #48
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Hard to believe it's been 5 years

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Forever a Flame: When you can't quite get your #### together.

Forever a Flame: The Honourable Mentions

Forever a Flame: A tiered glory system.

Forever a Flame: When Fans want what Ownership doesn't.
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How does the number of playoff games the Bruins won *this last season* have anything to do with their number of draft picks in the last three calendar years?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:38 AM   #49
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I would seriously puke if they retired Niewendyk's number. The way that he bailed his punk ass on us is forever a betrayal. I don't care that we got Iginla for him. What if we got Todd Harvey instead?

Mike Toth voice: Joe "I Bail When I Like" Niewendyk
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:39 AM   #50
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I think its as simple as the Flames wanting to start a program where they could honor the players but keep the numbers in circulation.

But...its the Flames. So this is what we got.

I like that common sense seems to have returned.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:39 AM   #51
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what optics?

Except for Al Hamilton, Edmonton has only retired numbers of players who are in the Hockey Hall of Fame. so the Edmonton comparison isn't really valid in this case.
Anything that is embarrassing makes me think of the Oilers. Hockey-related or not.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:41 AM   #52
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Speaking of banners have they hauled Getzlaf's down yet?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:44 AM   #53
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Speaking of banners have they hauled Getzlaf's down yet?
The guy who still buys a box for underpriveliged kids for Hitmen games? Why?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:45 AM   #54
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The guy who still buys a box for underpriveliged kids for Hitmen games? Why?
Well that was unfair of you.

Face saving edit: Clearly I meant to have it laundered

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Old 03-13-2019, 10:47 AM   #55
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Speaking of banners have they hauled Getzlaf's down yet?
Might as well leave it up. His days of destroying us game in-game out is over.
He is but a shell of himself now with a huge cap hit! Now time to use some of those millions on a hair transplant!

It took like eons but I'm finally glad to see him, Kesler and Perry as liabilities for the Ducks.

I still have no idea how Perry played another minute after the Stajan knee but he must be pretty tight with Lucifer and Satan.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:55 AM   #56
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Why 9? Seriously, how was Lanny more important to the Flames than Theo or MacInnis? He wasn't.
This might be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
Learn more than the last decade of the franchise history before making comments.
McDonald arriving changed the culture of the franchise. He gave it a sense of class and culture. Before him we had that forever expansion team feel, but after we acquired him the team became a truly legitimate franchise. He was a huge part of creating a culture of winning in the dressing room, and gave an example to new players about how to play on the ice, and how to act off the ice. Without his presence I doubt that the Flames develop the dominant teams that they had in the late 80's.
66 goals in a season. Find me another player that is going to be able to do that for the Flames.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:56 AM   #57
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Further to my previous post, I want to remind everyone of some players who would rank at or near the top of the Flames all time list in multiple categories, won multiple cups, played most or all of their careers with the team, had a major impact on the franchise etc, who do not have their numbers retired for the Detroit Red Wings. And all of them except Draper and Kronwall (and maybe Holmstrom) are guaranteed HOFers.

Brendan Shanahan 716GP, 633Pts
Pavel Datsyuk 953GP, 918Pts (never played for another team)
Henrik Zetterberg 1082GP, 960Pts (never played for another team)
Tomas Holmström 1026GP, 530Pts (never played for another team)
Sergei Federov 908GP, 954Pts
Kris Draper 1137GP (played all but 20 of his 1137 games with Red Wings)
Niklas Kronwall 941Gp (never played for another team and is still active)


Now, they are likely to retire Datsyuk or Zetterberg or both at some point. But if that organization only has 8 retired numbers (at present) with the kind of history they've got, how are we proposing to add 14, 34, 2, 25?, 5? to the rafters alongside 9, 12 and 30.

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Old 03-13-2019, 10:58 AM   #58
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Imagine having Mike Vernon come out to give the speech and banner raising for Al MacInnis... then Lanny McDonald doing the same for fellow captain Joe Nieuwendyk... and for the Grand finale Jarome Iginla giving the accolades to Theo Fleury!

Raise all three new banners together.

2 9 12 14 25 30


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Old 03-13-2019, 11:13 AM   #59
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With so many people abbreviating "Forever a Flame" as "FaF" I'm sure glad we're not the Panthers, Predators, or Penguins.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:13 AM   #60
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This might be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
Learn more than the last decade of the franchise history before making comments.
McDonald arriving changed the culture of the franchise. He gave it a sense of class and culture. Before him we had that forever expansion team feel, but after we acquired him the team became a truly legitimate franchise. He was a huge part of creating a culture of winning in the dressing room, and gave an example to new players about how to play on the ice, and how to act off the ice. Without his presence I doubt that the Flames develop the dominant teams that they had in the late 80's.
66 goals in a season. Find me another player that is going to be able to do that for the Flames.
Unless you were in the room, I think you are buying into a lot of what was created by the Flames and Lanny about Lanny. Firstly, the Flames were legit from day one in Calgary, going pretty deep into the POs year one and having a guy at the top of the points standings, up there with Dionne and Gretzky. And I don't know where you get this long history of "forever expansion feel" since Lanny got here in Calgary's second year. His 66 goals were something else. But it was really a one-off, and Nilsson was a huge reason for it. He was never close before and certainly not after.

The dominant teams that developed were, IMO a product mainly of excellent team building by Fletcher and excellent coaching by Badger Bob. The team really hit its stride in 85-86, when you saw guys like MacInnis, Loob, Suter, Otto, make an impact and you added Mullen, Tonelli, Vernon, etc.
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