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Old 03-15-2019, 11:19 AM   #2061
The Yen Man
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I'm onboard with going for Talbot at a reasonable price to be a tandem with Rittich. Talbot for $3.0M and Rittich for $2.5M would work well for the cap.

Sign Eberle for cheap, go after Hall next year, and all of a sudden, we're like half ex Oilers ha ha.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:21 AM   #2062
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Varlamov sucks though, so hopefully Tre will take that into consideration.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:21 AM   #2063
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With Varlamov available there will be several teams looking for an upgrade even if they already have a guy pencilled in as the starter for next year.
Frankly, I am not as high on Varlamov as you are. I think he is an average starter who is much better than Mike Smith. I don't think many teams will be bending over backwards to make room for Varlamov, especially if he wants 6 mil which is close to what he is currently making (which you think may be accurate).

If he does want to make 3-4 mil, then yeah, there will be some teams. Probably not too many better options than Calgary though who is literally a goaltending piece away from being a legitimate contender.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:46 AM   #2064
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Frankly, I am not as high on Varlamov as you are. I think he is an average starter who is much better than Mike Smith. I don't think many teams will be bending over backwards to make room for Varlamov, especially if he wants 6 mil which is close to what he is currently making (which you think may be accurate).

If he does want to make 3-4 mil, then yeah, there will be some teams. Probably not too many better options than Calgary though who is literally a goaltending piece away from being a legitimate contender.
I am not a huge fan of Varlamov either, but I do understand how NHL free agency works. With the number of goalies available in free agency this summer there is going to be a lot of movement, and Varlamov is going to attract a lot of attention. Teams will have money to spend on the position, and a guy with his resume will likely be in a position to use multiple offers to drive his own price up. He may not get $6.0 m, but he sure as hell will get offers for considerably more than $3.0 m.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:54 AM   #2065
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I don't hate the idea of Talbot but Rittich will have to show something in the playoffs before you can go that route IMO. You can't have two question marks in net headed into the season. Again.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:56 AM   #2066
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I don't hate the idea of Talbot but Rittich will have to show something in the playoffs before you can go that route IMO. You can't have two question marks in net headed into the season. Again.
I would start preparing yourself now for it.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:11 PM   #2067
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I am not a huge fan of Varlamov either, but I do understand how NHL free agency works. With the number of goalies available in free agency this summer there is going to be a lot of movement, and Varlamov is going to attract a lot of attention. Teams will have money to spend on the position, and a guy with his resume will likely be in a position to use multiple offers to drive his own price up. He may not get $6.0 m, but he sure as hell will get offers for considerably more than $3.0 m.
Just like many other times, you pretend that you know a lot more than other people. It's gotten very annoying especially when you "claim" to know how everything works.

Do you know or understand basic principles of economics? You mention how there will be a lot of goalies available this summer, well increased supply leads to a decrease in prices. With the number of goalies available in Free Agency and with a salary cap, teams are going to very quickly move on to their second or third options if their top choice is demanding too much money which will then ultimately reduce the price of the top choice.

Just because there will be 15 goalies in Free Agency doesn't necessarily mean there are 15 open NHL roster spots for those goalies.

He may or may not get 3.0 mil but your opinion is as good as mine, not fact.

Last edited by keenan87; 03-15-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:38 PM   #2068
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Just like many other times, you pretend that you know a lot more than other people. It's gotten very annoying especially when you "claim" to know how everything works.

Do you know or understand basic principles of economics? You mention how there will be a lot of goalies available this summer, well increased supply leads to a decrease in prices. With the number of goalies available in Free Agency and with a salary cap, teams are going to very quickly move on to their second or third options if their top choice is demanding too much money which will then ultimately reduce the price of the top choice.

Just because there will be 15 goalies in Free Agency doesn't necessarily mean there are 15 open NHL roster spots for those goalies.
Just because there are fewer roster spots open than UFA NHL goalies doesn't necessarily mean that all of them will be taking 50% pay-cuts.

Yeah, I don't know how things are going to play out this summer, but it strikes me as shortsighted for someone to declare that a 31-year-old NHL starting goalie with award nominations, All Star team selections, 400 games on his resumé and entering unrestricted free agency for the first time will be cheap. Varlomov may be having a down year, but he has a pretty strong track record of high-end performance; last year he posted a 0.920 SP in 51 games.

I would expect that Varlamov ranks in the top-three of every team's UFA goalie targets this summer.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:22 PM   #2069
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We are hot and heavy for Varlamov due to a Vezina nomination 6 years ago?

He had a sub .890 season more recently.

Who knows what he is?
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #2070
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We are hot and heavy for Varlamov due to a Vezina nomination 6 years ago?

He had a sub .890 season more recently.

Who knows what he is?
SV%!? Are you kidding me?
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:36 PM   #2071
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We are hot and heavy for Varlamov due to a Vezina nomination 6 years ago?

He had a sub .890 season more recently.

Who knows what he is?
especially considering rittich is chopped liver because of his sv% in the last *arbitrary sample size*
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:53 PM   #2072
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Varlamov has been injury prone.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:09 PM   #2073
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And all of this back-and-forth shows the problem - it's very, very hard to sign a proven goalie in his prime, because... other teams have them and keep them. So it's crazy big bucks as a UFA signing, or it's develop your own. And we haven't super duper managed that....
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:02 PM   #2074
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And we don’t really have cap room for a big signing. Not that there is any good options out there. I wouldn’t pay big for Bob even if he wanted to come here.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:51 PM   #2075
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I see the Flames unloading Frolík, Stone and Brodie at the draft, thus creating all the goalie cap space we need.

Gaudreau 6,75 Monahan 6,375 Lindholm 4,85
Dubé ,778 Backlund 5,35 Tkachuk 7,4
Bennett 2,0 Jankowski 1,675 Neal 5,75
Hathaway ,850 Ryan 3,125 Czarnik 1,25
Mangiapane ,705

Giordano 6,75 Andersson ,755
Hanifin 4,95 Hamonic 3,857
Välimäki ,894 Kylington ,730
Fantenberg ,700

Salary Cap $83,000,000
Cap Hit $66,996,308
Buyouts $1,500,000
Bonuses $747,500
Cap Space
$16,003,692
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:59 PM   #2076
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If the Flames trade ALL of Stone, Frolik, and Brodie, then I'd hope they also go for a big-name forward this summer too. Not necessarily a UFA, but someone of real value for sure.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:31 PM   #2077
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13 UFA goalies got signed on July 1 last year, plus Lehner a couple days later. Pretty sure Dustin Tokarski was the only other UFA signed for the rest of the off-season.

Bernier 3x3
Ward 3x1
Hutton 2.75x3
Halak 2.75x2
Khudobin 2.5x2
The rest under 2M AAV

The year before, Steve Mason, Brian Elliott, Bernier, Chad Johnson, and Anders Nilsson were the 2.5M+ guys (all 1-2 years). Reto Berra signed July 5, and Robin Lehner (re-signed 1 yr 4M, July 25).

The point is, it's really hard to get anything other than a backup or 1B on July 1. After that date, it's pretty darn difficult to acquire an NHL calibre goalie, because the team trading him away can't find a replacement.

Varlamov and Bobrovsky are very different than the scrap heaps listed above. I'll be shocked if either actually make it to July 1...if you're all in on one of them, you'll trade a middle pick to get their rights and get ink on paper.

It's also pretty hard to acquire a legit #1 goalie through trade - off the top of my head I can't think of any recent big ones involving guys not listed above, or of their ilk? It's quite a way back to the original Varlamov and Bobrovsky trades...Schneider, Luongo, Martin Jones, and Dubnyk are the only others that come to mind where a team has successfully shored up their creases for multiple years, and only the last two look likely to continue. There's a much, much, much longer list of goalie trades that haven't really panned out.


Here's the other bad news: since the 2005 lockout, every cup winning team has had a homegrown goalie, with two minor exceptions: Chris Osgood (homegrown in Detroit, but it was his second stint there), and JS Giguere (traded age 22, won in his 6th season as a Duck). Tim Thomas had a weird path, but probably fair to say he was grown as a Bruin.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:03 AM   #2078
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Interesting table looking at what goalies have faced the easiest starts (10+) more starts.

Not surprising to see the league's best team's have the goalies with the least work, but Mike Smith 4th after Dominque and the Shark goalies. Rittich on the list at 13.

https://twitter.com/ice_cole_data/st...03372077121543
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:37 AM   #2079
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13 UFA goalies got signed on July 1 last year, plus Lehner a couple days later. Pretty sure Dustin Tokarski was the only other UFA signed for the rest of the off-season.

Bernier 3x3
Ward 3x1
Hutton 2.75x3
Halak 2.75x2
Khudobin 2.5x2
The rest under 2M AAV

The year before, Steve Mason, Brian Elliott, Bernier, Chad Johnson, and Anders Nilsson were the 2.5M+ guys (all 1-2 years). Reto Berra signed July 5, and Robin Lehner (re-signed 1 yr 4M, July 25).

The point is, it's really hard to get anything other than a backup or 1B on July 1. After that date, it's pretty darn difficult to acquire an NHL calibre goalie, because the team trading him away can't find a replacement.

Varlamov and Bobrovsky are very different than the scrap heaps listed above. I'll be shocked if either actually make it to July 1...if you're all in on one of them, you'll trade a middle pick to get their rights and get ink on paper.

It's also pretty hard to acquire a legit #1 goalie through trade - off the top of my head I can't think of any recent big ones involving guys not listed above, or of their ilk? It's quite a way back to the original Varlamov and Bobrovsky trades...Schneider, Luongo, Martin Jones, and Dubnyk are the only others that come to mind where a team has successfully shored up their creases for multiple years, and only the last two look likely to continue. There's a much, much, much longer list of goalie trades that haven't really panned out.


Here's the other bad news: since the 2005 lockout, every cup winning team has had a homegrown goalie, with two minor exceptions: Chris Osgood (homegrown in Detroit, but it was his second stint there), and JS Giguere (traded age 22, won in his 6th season as a Duck). Tim Thomas had a weird path, but probably fair to say he was grown as a Bruin.
Rittich has less than 2 years NHL under his belt. I'd say he has as much of a shot at being a homegrown quality goalie as, say Thomas (like you mentioned) or Crawford, who didn't get into the league as a starter until 25.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:09 AM   #2080
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Interesting table looking at what goalies have faced the easiest starts (10+) more starts.

Not surprising to see the league's best team's have the goalies with the least work, but Mike Smith 4th after Dominque and the Shark goalies. Rittich on the list at 13.

https://twitter.com/ice_cole_data/st...03372077121543

This list is quite surprising. What in the heck is that even supposed to mean? The Flames found a way to shelter both guys? They are the best defensive team in the league?

The Flames found some teams in the league that are easier to play against than all of the other teams have to face?

Logic check fails. I am throwing out the bath water, and not even checking for the baby.
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