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Old 03-15-2019, 06:11 PM   #161
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This myth again? Besides saying he should have made the Flames on his comeback bid please show me proof he "slagged the Flames organization for years". Good luck.
Look, I can't provide all this solid evidence you seek because a lot of this happened before the prevalence of permanence that came with the explosion of the Internet. All I have are anecdotes and faint memories of interviews he had where he implied the Flames were responsible for his downfall, that they were unreasonable leading up to the trade and gave him no chance to stay in Calgary, and that they did nothing to help him despite knowing all about his difficulties with addiction.

It was always someone else's fault. Obviously we understand why he had that attitude. That's a rational defense mechanism. And if I recall his book wasn't exactly a glowing review of the Calgary Flames organization.

Feel free to continue to disregard the other points, too.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:13 PM   #162
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Look, I can't provide all this solid evidence you seek because a lot of this happened before the prevalence of permanence that came with the explosion of the Internet. All I have are anecdotes and faint memories of interview he had where he implied the Flames were responsible for his downfall, that they were unreasonable leading up to the trade and gave him no chance to stay in Calgary, and that they did nothing to help him despite knowing all about his difficulties with addiction.

It was always someone else's fault. Obviously we understand why he had that attitude. That's a rational defense mechanism. And if I recall his book wasn't exactly a glowing review of the Calgary Flames organization.

Feel free to continue to disregard the other points, too.
Ok, well I am a big Fleury fan and I don't remember any of that at all. Nor have I ever seen evidence of it. So we will agree to disagree on it. And you have no other points.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:16 PM   #163
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He doesnít deserve it. His resume isnít unimpressive but it doesnít blow me away either.

He leads the Flames in one semi-relevant category, SHG. Iggy leads almost every category and by a fair margin.
You do realize if Fleury had played as many games as Iginla did for the Flames that he would hold every record and not Iggy right? That it actually would not even be close?
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:17 PM   #164
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I do think, however, that there is something non-public stopping Fleury from getting his recognition, and it's not that the Flames are just snubbing him.
Clearly you didn't read above:
So either your basis is you just don't like the guy or you think sexual abuse victims are garbage. Take your pick.

Those are your only options
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:22 PM   #165
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Clearly you didn't read above:
So either your basis is you just don't like the guy or you think sexual abuse victims are garbage. Take your pick.

Those are your only options
Love how you just totally ignore where I said I went off side on that but feel free to pick your spots. Good job, fish for those thanks!
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:24 PM   #166
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So by your reasoning then the Montreal Canadiens should never have retired Roy's 33. Everything he accomplished on ice and for the team should not matter because he walked off the ice and said he had played his last game for Montreal. Am I right?
Do you always ignore and disrespect peoples opinion, when they give you their reasoning, by making up scenarios that only fill your objective? This is the second time you have did this to my opinion.

Roy has nothing to do with Fleury and his history with the Calgary Flames owners and if the owners should honour his number in the organization that they own.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:26 PM   #167
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Do you always ignore and disrespect peoples opinion, when they give you their reasoning, by making up scenarios that only fill your objective? This is the second time you have did this to my opinion.

Roy has nothing to do with Fleury and his history with the Calgary Flames owners and if the owners should honour his number in the organization that they own.
ahhh, so you got no rebuttal at all. I gave another scenario similiar and you come back with babble because you could not answer the question. Nice.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:27 PM   #168
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Ok, well I am a big Fleury fan and I don't remember any of that at all. Nor have I ever seen evidence of it. So we will agree to disagree on it. And you have no other points.
1. He never led (as captain, leader, and franchise player) the Flames to anything other than mediocrity.
2. His off-ice antics were not that of a role model (specifically during his playing days).
3. His off-ice personality was very self-centered. You've read his book, it's right there. There's a fine line between confidence and being egotistical.
4. He is not recognized in the same vein as McDonald and Iginla when it comes to the Flames. Ask the casual, out of market fan who they think of when they hear Calgary Flames...I have no statistical evidence, but I expect you'll hear 2 names, and they don't contain Theoren or Fleury.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:28 PM   #169
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1. He never led the Flames to anything other than mediocrity.
2. His off-ice antics were not that of a role model (specifically during his playing days).
3. His off-ice personality was very self-centered. You've read his book, it's right there. There's a fine line between confidence and being egotistical.
4. He is not recognized in the same vein as McDonald and Iginla when it comes to the Flames. Ask the casual, out of market fan who they think of when they hear Calgary Flames...I have no statistical evidence, but I expect you'll hear 2 names, and they don't contain Theoren or Fleury.
Sure. Your story, you can make up anything you want. Exactly what did Jarome lead the Flames to? It doesn't matter because he was a great player.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:29 PM   #170
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Sure. Your story, you can make up anything you want.
You are being completely irrational and dismissive. I'm out.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #171
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Ok, well I am a big Fleury fan and I don't remember any of that at all. Nor have I ever seen evidence of it. So we will agree to disagree on it. And you have no other points.
I can second the fact that Fleury was not at all complimentary of the Flames for a long time. As has been stated this was long enough ago that it's not as easy to prove as googling a few media links, but there were numerous comments he made implying that the organization was second rate or had not put him in a position to succeed, as well as marginalizing contributions of any of the other players at the time (in fairness it was the Young Guns era so he had plenty of ammunition) and basically making it very clear that he thought he was above the Calgary Flames. He has toned it down over the years and seems to be on better terms with the team now than he was then, but at the time it was extremely off-putting.

I have been a Flames fan since they moved to Calgary and nobody was a bigger Theo fan than me during the glory days, but I take a dim view of any player who puts themselves ahead of the team or takes shots at the organization that gave them their break and made their career what it is. Theo was an amazing player on the ice and I have an enormous amount of respect for him and the issues he has had to overcome, but from my perspective his accomplishments will always feel tainted by ego and the bad blood he left behind him.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #172
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You are being completely irrational and dismissive. I'm out.
Good. Go find some actual facts to back your argument and I won't be so dismissive.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:32 PM   #173
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Anyhow people get passionate about these things, it is a hockey board of passionate fans and this has gotten ugly and that is more than partly my fault so I will just drop it.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:43 PM   #174
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ahhh, so you got no rebuttal at all. I gave another scenario similiar and you come back with babble because you could not answer the question. Nice.
You don't get it though

"I gave another scenario similar"

Roy could be considered the greatest goalie to ever played the game. Some will argue he was only top 5, you may find others that will rank him top 10

Are you implying that Fleury was the greatest player to play the game, maybe top 5 or even top 10

The scenarios are not similar, the player's impact on the sport are not similar.

I gave my reasoning for my opinion, I don't need to keep giving reasons till eventually, you get the answer that fills your opinion and only your opinion.

This isn't a situation where one opionon rules all, sorry my opionon isn't any more right or worng than yours, but for you too only create strawman arguments in a way to push your own opionon isn't a game I'm going to play
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:06 PM   #175
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Anyhow people get passionate about these things, it is a hockey board of passionate fans and this has gotten ugly and that is more than partly my fault so I will just drop it.
Almost exclusively your fault.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:12 PM   #176
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Almost exclusively your fault.
Join date Oct 18. So puckluck version 45? Pretty obvious by your posting style your a banned returnee.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:24 PM   #177
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Iíd keep forever a flame but make it a black and white qualification.

Make the qualification be 700 gp with the Flames with no other strings attached. No banner, but a concourse honour or just simple a last name on a future 2nd bowl ring.

Make it obvious that itís a lesser honour than a jersey retirement.

Jersey retirement should only be reserved for generational players. Vernon and Lanny are already there so just leave it.

MacInnis is the only one who is debatable to have his jersey retired. Theo is not in this conversation.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:05 PM   #178
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Well “not liking Fleury” is a pretty big bucket and isn’t that where most people who don’t want him honored land? I think most everyone would agree his on ice accomplishments merit it, but some just can’t stomach how he has carried himself. I guess that’s not exactly the same as not liking him, but it’s close isn’t it?

I’m in the boat of not really liking they guy but wanting to honor him based on what he accomplished on the ice. And despite his issues , he never cheated the game as far as I am aware.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:07 PM   #179
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Well ďnot liking FleuryĒ is a pretty big bucket and isnít that where most people who donít want him honored land? I think most everyone would agree his on ice accomplishments merit it, but some just canít stomach how he has carried himself. I guess thatís not exactly the same as not liking him, but itís close isnít it?

Iím in the boat of not really liking they guy but wanting to honor him based on what he accomplished on the ice. And despite his issues , he never cheated the game as far as I am aware.
I'm with you - he is not a pleasant guy (understandably) and often says abrasive or offputting things. I give him a lot of leeway for that, of course. But where it really matters - on the ice - there's no doubt he's in the very top of Flames.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:36 PM   #180
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Took my son to Hometown Hockey today in Lethbridge, it was so much fun! Jamie Macoun was signing autographs and I talked to him about MacInnis and Nieuwy and we both agreed the Forever a Flame was silly. He told me the he is head of the Alumni and that expect as soon as next season that it will be fixed and their numbers/banners will be fixed!👍
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