[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[JTech780]

Well since it basically feels like Gaudreau gave the entire franchise and fan base the middle finger, I say we give him the middle finger right back and go help Philly clear cap space today. Let’s go trade for JVR or Provorov.

I am mostly kidding.

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Hey Mods can I please change my user name now! So disappointed! I hope management does the right thing and trade Tkachuk for the best offer of young prospects and picks. It’s time to do a proper rebuild and not bandaid this! Coronato, Pelletier, Zary, Wolf, Ruzicka, and Kerins is a decent start.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Okay if you want me to consider outside influences and everything involved with the Flames then should you not do the same when accusing Gaudreau for stringing the Flames along? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Its not an accusation EE...its what happened as evidenced by making an announcement he wouldnt be back less than 24 hours before UFA hit.

Unless you are suggesting making a counter offer over the weekend was in good faith and everything suddenly changed on Monday or Tuesday.....which I suppose is possible even if unlikely.

[MRCboicgy]

Sure, I'll change it to "Gaudreau is a BJ" for ya





in truth, Plz PM the moderator account and the admins will take it under consideration. (I can't change names, personally)

[JohnnyB]

If Columbus is where he wanted to be, I'm pretty sure he could have had eight years there in a sign and trade at 10.5 by being up-front with the Flames. Also, it's crazy that he ended up on a contract that isn't even front-loaded. Was nobody advising him on future vs. present value of the dollars on the table? It just seems he could have easily come out of this much richer, being where he chose to be, and without burnt bridges and a burnt legacy in a community he had been a part of for a long time. It's hard not to see this as a really bungled relationship and process. If I were a developing prospective NHL star, I would not even consider having Gross represent me in anything.

[tony-soprano]

With Lindholm/Zad locked for two years and Markstrom for another 4 years. Do the Flames try to make a few deals and contend over the next few seasons? If that fails, start dealing players for a rebuild.

Monahan/Lucic can be moved if they need, of course that’s assuming Tkachuk puts the team on his back as a new Captain.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Ohio taxes on $9.75MM = After-tax income is $5.715MM (according to Forbes tax calculator)

Alberta taxes on $10.5MM = After-tax income is $5.491MM (according to turbo tax calculator).

So in essence he is better off $224K per year in CLB which is $1.568MM over 7 years, but he gave up 1 year of $5.491MM so he's worse off by $3.923MM in after tax dollars undiscounted.

So you're trading just under $4MM to live kinda closer to home and be out of the spotlight. To me that's a wildly expensive trade / price but what do I know and to each their own.

If I had an 8 year contract making enough every year to support myself indefinitely and I was given the option to sacrifice one of those years to be able to live in relative peace, I would take that deal in a second.

[ricardodw]

Do hockey players get paid for endorsements? Is there outside cap money involved?

Johnny Hockey is pretty much the face of American Hockey.

The chances of him doing a National Life insurance commercial has gone up a significant amount.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

The part I don’t get is why announce to CGY that they are no longer an option before you have real deals on the table from the teams you want? Why would they not want that as a fall back plan, or at the very least a bargaining chip with NJ or whoever else was involved.

Either JG’s side were way over confident, or this CBJ deal really is something he wanted.

The only reason I can see doing that is the Gaudreau camp asked for $10.5x8 and when the Flames said they could make that happen Gaudreau balked and it became clear he was not willing to return to Calgary.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Gross was also taken aback by this which is why he shared it was about family and Calgary did everything they could.

Gaudreau wasn't required to deal with the Flames in good faith, but I don't think doing that would have cost him anything. In fact, I think burning his bridge with the Flames hurt him when he was negotiating yesterday.

I don't hate the guy, but I'm disappointed in how he handled himself in leaving and it tarnishes what he did here.

[Regular_John]

Huh, I just can’t figure out why Johnny wouldn’t want to stay in Calgary playing for the gracious and considerate fan base on display in this thread.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Its not an accusation EE...its what happened as evidenced by making an announcement he wouldnt be back less than 24 hours before UFA hit.

Unless you are suggesting making a counter offer over the weekend was in good faith and everything suddenly changed on Monday or Tuesday.....which I suppose is possible even if unlikely.

So cake and eat it too then.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Do hockey players get paid for endorsements? Is there outside cap money involved?

Johnny Hockey is pretty much the face of American Hockey.

Unless your name is Crosby or McDavid, they are virtually inconsequential.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by nik-

If I had an 8 year contract making enough every year to support myself indefinitely and I was given the option to sacrifice one of those years to be able to live in relative peace, I would take that deal in a second.

I don't understand the difference between what the capfriendly tax calculator did and what I did but I am very confident I screwed something up so I would go with the other number.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

If Columbus is where he wanted to be, I'm pretty sure he could have had eight years there in a sign and trade at 10.5 by being up-front with the Flames. Also, it's crazy that he ended up on a contract that isn't even front-loaded. Was nobody advising him on future vs. present value of the dollars on the table? It just seems he could have easily come out of this much richer, being where he chose to be, and without burnt bridges and a burnt legacy in a community he had been a part of for a long time. It's hard not to see this as a really bungled relationship and process. If I were a developing prospective NHL star, I would not even consider having Gross represent me in anything.

This is the weird part.

No up front money and no signing bonus (which is a huge impact with Escrow).

I mentioned this earlier in the thread and it got lost in the shuffle but I found myself with a random conversation with somebody close to the family last night (not going to name names but a mod can PM me if they want).

Based on the conversation it really does sound like Johnny was truly torn by this decision to leave Calgary and it really was 50/50. Also it sounds like the family was as surprised as the rest of us that it’s Columbus in the end.

I really think this came down to Johnny really wanting Philly, and when that didn’t work out he just took the best offer that was in the East and closer to home, where he’s had some friends play. I don’t think it being a smaller market hurt either.

Honestly I have a feeling there might be some pressure on Lewis Gross today too, because I think everyone thought they would be offers of $10.5M AAV on the table and that just didn’t come to fruition.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

However, your second paragraph goes way too far, as your conclusions usually do. You suggest the Flames should have known and should have dealt with it. They can only 'know', and thus deal with it, if the player relates that it is an issue. But by all accounts, that was not the case. Gaudreau kept the Flames fully on the line right until the end, and left them feeling there was a real chance that he would stay - and who knows, maybe there was, as he seemed genuinely conflicted.

Yes, the Flames should have known this. They should have known what made the guy tick and appeal to those aspects of his personality. If the Flames are not having a sports psychologist to work with these guys and get inside their heads to know how they tick and what motivates them, they aren't doing things right. But based on the mental weakness of the team as a whole, this is a distinct possibility, but I digress. There is more to convincing someone with extrinsic motivators. You want to sell someone on something, appeal to their intrinsic motivators and show how you align with those. We know the Flames backed up the Brinks truck, but the extrinsic motivator was not what drove the player.

Gaudreau's side led the Flames on. I don't hold animosity towards them for that, as they were within their right to do so, and doing so improves their bargaining position. It is what it is, but suggesting the Flames are at fault for that is an over-reaction.

Of course the Flames are at fault. Jesus, they are making an $80M+ investment, don't you think they should do due diligence and understand the people they are investing in? If you're trying to woo someone it is your responsibility to know them and appeal to what drives them. Obviously the Flames thought it was one thing when the reality was it was another. Gross did his job in escalating the money angle, but I wonder how many times the Flames actually sat down with Johnny and actively listened to what he had to say and what motivated him? I think this is where things failed. The two sides were never on the same page about what was driving Gaudreau and the Flames made it out to be all about money and legacy. Both were wrong, but the Flames shoulder most of the blame because they were the ones making the investment and not completing the due diligence to understand their investment.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Regular_John

Huh, I just can’t figure out why Johnny wouldn’t want to stay in Calgary playing for the gracious and considerate fan base on display in this thread.

Literally every other fan base would have reacted as poorly or worse. Once again, I think Flames fans are taking this rather well.

[Enoch Root]

One side issue here, that has always been a concern for me, is US born players. Canadian markets are less attractive to (many) players, for a variety of reasons, it is a simple fact that we have to deal with. Part of dealing with that is assessing flight risk. And I have always been of the opinion that US born players are very often a big risk. Are there exceptions? Of course. But it is a variable that needs to be considered.

Obviously, nationality is not the only factor in determining whether a player will want to play in Canada, but it is definitely one of them. I used to think that Russians were at the top of the list, but over the last few years, I think that has changed and is now Americans. I would rank it as follows:

USA
Russia
Slovac countries
Finland
Sweden
Canada

I think it is simply a part of the American culture to be more focused on numero uno - it's all about Me Inc. Again, everyone is an individual, and there are a lot of exceptions, but if I were GMing a Canadian team, I would be minimizing my exposure to American players.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So cake and eat it too then.

Ummm....no.

[Heavy Jack]

To be willing to dump 84 mill on a player who seemingly had no intentions of ever staying long term in Calgary is extremely concerning. Tells me that management doesn’t have a pulse or true feel on the roster as much as one would hope and leaves me concerned with the rest of this roster that’s been built and how it’s handled moving forward. Tkachuk is now the piece that really dictates what this franchise is all about for the next 3 to 5 years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is the weird part.

No up front money and no signing bonus (which is a huge impact with Escrow).

I mentioned this earlier in the thread and it got lost in the shuffle but I found myself with a random conversation with somebody close to the family last night (not going to name names but a mod can PM me if they want).

Based on the conversation it really does sound like Johnny was truly torn by this decision to leave Calgary and it really was 50/50. Also it sounds like the family was as surprised as the rest of us that it’s Columbus in the end.

I really think this came down to Johnny really wanting Philly, and when that didn’t work out he just took the best offer that was in the East and closer to home, where he’s had some friends play. I don’t think it being a smaller market hurt either.

Honestly I have a feeling there might be some pressure on Lewis Gross today too, because I think everyone thought they would be offers of $10.5M AAV on the table and that just didn’t come to fruition.

Some people just refuse to accept that it was a difficult and agonizing decision for him and want to assume he strung them along but this has always made the most sense.