[Signing] Canucks sign Horvat (6 yrs, $5.5 mil AAV)

[Love]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Tryamkin is a defenseman. Sutter and Horvat never played together.

You don't think receiving outlet passes from Gio/Hamilton/Brodie isn't a significant advantage to Tryamkin/Tanev/Hutton?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Love

You don't think receiving outlet passes from Gio/Hamilton/Brodie isn't a significant advantage to Tryamkin/Tanev/Hutton?

Could just as easily say Engelland and Wideman. You're just talking off the cuff here.

[Strange Brew]

He seems to be steadily improving and plays an important position. His production hasn't been stellar but don't really know who his linemate are.

The deal seems fair and could end up being good value for the Canucks.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Love

You don't think receiving outlet passes from Gio/Hamilton/Brodie isn't a significant advantage to Tryamkin/Tanev/Hutton?

It's quite clear that you didn't even watch the Canucks games if you thought that he was playing with Sutter. And I doubt you knew Tryamkin was a defenseman, but it's weird you would go with a defenseman that was often scratched and played 15 minutes a night when he did as a point to make...it's pretty obvious you don't know much about Horvat and are talking out of your ass.

[Gundo]

Originally Posted by Love

Steal. I don't think Draisaitl or Monahan are better players than Horvat

Tell us more Mr. Linden

[Love]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I like Horvat, but hes not as productive as Monahan or Draisaitl. That said I'd rather have Horvat at his contract than Draisaitl at his...

You're right. He definitely is at the bottom of the three when comparing offensive output, but we also have to account for situational advantage and development curve. He is the only elite skater of the three and has never played with a Hudler/Gaudreau/McDavid/Hall or even Eberle. Projecting going forward I just don't see what either of them do that Horvat doesn't besides play with elite offensive facilitators.

[Love]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It's quite clear that you didn't even watch the Canucks games if you thought that he was playing with Sutter. And I doubt you knew Tryamkin was a defenseman, but it's weird you would go with a defenseman that was often scratched and played 15 minutes a night when he did as a point to make...it's pretty obvious you don't know much about Horvat and are talking out of your ass.

You're free to make whatever assumptions you'd like

[---Hatrick---]

I just don't see how you would put Horvat on Monahan or Draisaital's level right now. Just because he is a better skater doesn't make him the same level player. I mean, look at the wheels Lombardi had!
Monahan is a clutch scorer and he's done so being a first line centerman. While I agree that Draisaital is well over paid, I would not hesitate to say he's a better player than Horvat too.
His skating has also drastically improved from what I've seen.

It's a fair debate, but it's a very tough one for you to win in this case

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I like Horvat, but hes not as productive as Monahan or Draisaitl. That said I'd rather have Horvat at his contract than Draisaitl at his...

And I would rather have Monahan at his contract more than either of these!

[Love]

Originally Posted by ---Hatrick---

It's a fair debate, but it's a very tough one for you to win in this case

Agreed. It's more of a projection going forward type of thing. But then again, I am a big Horvat fan so.. I think they're all in the same tier, but just that I have Horvat slightly edging the other two. Monahan has an elite mind for the game and is a sniper with great hands around the net, but his skating is clearly the worst of the three. I'm really hoping he took his skating to the next level this summer because I think it's what really holding him back from being a bonafide #1C.

[d_phaneuf]

Fair deal, buys 2 UFA seasons

At this point his floor is basically a top end 2C who scores 55-60 points, if he makes no jump off that the contract is fair value

If he can make the leap, maybe with more power play time and better linemates to being a 70+ point 1C than its a great deal for the Canucks, but Bo will get paid again at 28 on another deal

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Love

You're right. He definitely is at the bottom of the three when comparing offensive output, but we also have to account for situational advantage and development curve. He is the only elite skater of the three and has never played with a Hudler/Gaudreau/McDavid/Hall or even Eberle. Projecting going forward I just don't see what either of them do that Horvat doesn't besides play with elite offensive facilitators.

You're only looking at one side of it.

Sure, Monahan and Draisitl have had some better line mates. But they also likely face much stiffer quality of competition. Also, what about opportunity? What about zone starts?

And what about simple things like the fact that the Nucks suck and good teams simply play them at a lower gear right now? I think it is very difficult, and usually very misleading, to try and compare players, just based on these stats or those stats, or line mates, or whatever. Results are what matters most.

Horvat is a very good player, but he simply isn't as productive as the other two. And for a top 6 C, that is a pretty important thing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Fair deal, buys 2 UFA seasons

At this point his floor is basically a top end 2C who scores 55-60 points, if he makes no jump off that the contract is fair value

If he can make the leap, maybe with more power play time and better linemates to being a 70+ point 1C than its a great deal for the Canucks, but Bo will get paid again at 28 on another deal

I agree with your post overall. But considering his career high is 52 points, it's a bit of a stretch to say that his floor is 55-60 points.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Love

Agreed. It's more of a projection going forward type of thing. But then again, I am a big Horvat fan so.. I think they're all in the same tier, but just that I have Horvat slightly edging the other two. Monahan has an elite mind for the game and is a sniper with great hands around the net, but his skating is clearly the worst of the three. I'm really hoping he took his skating to the next level this summer because I think it's what really holding him back from being a bonafide #1C.

Monahan is already a bona fide #1 centre. He has been one of top producing centres in the WC the past three seasons.

And while his skating is not great, I think you are drastically overrating Horvat's. He is a good skater, but "elite"? I disagree.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That seems about right. It is difficult to know what sort of player Horvat is.

Is it? I'm not sure it is. To me he looks like a foundational #2 centre with intangibles. He's one of their better young pieces so far.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Love

You're right. He definitely is at the bottom of the three when comparing offensive output, but we also have to account for situational advantage and development curve. He is the only elite skater of the three and has never played with a Hudler/Gaudreau/McDavid/Hall or even Eberle.

This is a fair point. Horvat has wheels and certainly has some skill, but has never had players alongside him even approaching the quality of even a Hudler, frankly. I agree he's capable of more than he's shown, and the fact is we don't know if either Monahan or Draisatl are capable of driving the play without elite linemates (in Calgary I hope we never find out!)

Originally Posted by Love

Projecting going forward I just don't see what either of them do that Horvat doesn't besides play with elite offensive facilitators.

That might be a bit much, but time will tell. Goes to show that only the truly elite overcome their circumstances and produce in spite of them. Look at Iginla. He was a one-man show for more than a decade.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

And I would rather have Monahan at his contract more than either of these!

I agree.

And just because I love this stat so much:

Sean Monahan was drafted in 2013.
Sean Monahan has 107 goals.
There were 843 players drafted to the NHL from 2010 to 2013, inclusive.
Of those 843 players, 5 have more goals than Sean Monahan. FIVE

2010: Seguin (189); Skinner (180); Hall (152); Tarasenko (145)
2011: Landeskog (118)

That is it.

None of the 632 drafted since (2014-2016 draft) have scored more than him.

So, of the last 1,475 players drafted in the NHL (again, not counting the 2017 draftees), 5 have outscored Sean Monahan. FIVE

Bo Horvat was also drafted in 2013. Sean Monahan has 58 goals more than him, or 123% more.

The kid is good.

[Johnny Makarov]

Might as well pay him well because the Canucks have the worst group of prospects in the league.

[Hockey]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Might as well pay him well because the Canucks have the worst group of prospects in the league.

9. Vancouver Canucks
Previous rank: 13

I'm sure Vancouver fans may argue their slot should be a little higher after using back-to-back No. 5 overall picks, with those picks being Olli Juolevi and Elias Pettersson. Although both are good prospects, they don't move the needle at an elite level. However, Brock Boeser provides a lot of value, and looked outstanding in his brief NHL time this past season. Getting Jonathan Dahlen from Ottawa was also a boost to this system.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Hockey

9. Vancouver Canucks
Previous rank: 13

I'm sure Vancouver fans may argue their slot should be a little higher after using back-to-back No. 5 overall picks, with those picks being Olli Juolevi and Elias Pettersson. Although both are good prospects, they don't move the needle at an elite level. However, Brock Boeser provides a lot of value, and looked outstanding in his brief NHL time this past season. Getting Jonathan Dahlen from Ottawa was also a boost to this system.

Real world rankings for the next 5 years.
NHL:
17/18-28th Sedins retire at the end of the season.
18/19-31st
19/20-31st
20/21-31st Quebec gets a team at the of this season.
21/22-32nd

You better hope you get lotto lucky during this time.