Edmonton is No Good Episode 4: New Rink, Same Stink

[Enoch Root]

Ahh July... sunshine, beaches, golfing in the mountains, and an endless stream of Oiler bravado.

Originally Posted by Oilers93

Gaudreau and Monahan had 119 points.. COMBINED!

while McDavid had 100 all by himself.. then you add in Drai who outscored both Monahan and Gaudreau

The numbers speak for themselves

Yes, yes, McDavid and Draisaitl are the greatest duo since Gretzky and Messier! Pay them. Pay them!!

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Even if you think Calgary's endless cycle of goalies is the defense's fault (it isn't) we've only had Hamilton for the last 2 seasons, Stone for 1/4, Hamonic has yet to play and we don't have guys like Russell, Smid, Engelland and Wideman anymore.

Tell me, which of Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie or Hamonic, Sekera would replace? On paper, Calgary has a top 3 defensive core. On paper Edmonton has a bottom 10 defensive core. And rag on Smith all you want, he doesn't need to be elite, he needs to be slightly better than average. Numbers he easily put up on a terrible Phoenix team.

Sekera replaces Hamonic IMO

and the game isn't played on paper....the Oilers have finished ahead of the Flames in GA the past two seasons despite the Flames having Gio, Brodie and Hamilton on the roster and even adding Hamonic (-21) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Oilers have the better goalie, and their young defensemen (Larsson, Klefbom, Benning and Nurse) are under 25 and still getting better and better

The Flames have a nice set of offensive defensemen but are vastly overrated in their defensive abilities and the proof is there.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

Sekera replaces Hamonic IMO

and the game isn't played on paper....the Oilers have finished ahead of the Flames in GA the past two seasons despite the Flames having Gio, Brodie and Hamilton on the roster and even adding Hamonic (-21) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Oilers have the better goalie, and their young defensemen (Larsson, Klefbom, Benning and Nurse) are under 25 and still getting better and better

The Flames have a nice set of offensive defensemen but are vastly overrated in their defensive abilities and the proof is there.

Spoiler!

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

Sekera replaces Hamonic IMO

and the game isn't played on paper....the Oilers have finished ahead of the Flames in GA the past two seasons despite the Flames having Gio, Brodie and Hamilton on the roster and even adding Hamonic (-21) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Oilers have the better goalie, and their young defensemen (Larsson, Klefbom, Benning and Nurse) are under 25 and still getting better and better

The Flames have a nice set of offensive defensemen but are vastly overrated in their defensive abilities and the proof is there.

BAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

That is all.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by the2bears

No. It's because of the crossovers.

League moves from era of "big but slow" to "puck moving and fleet of foot".

Coilers have moved from toe drags to crossovers.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

Sekera replaces Hamonic IMO

and the game isn't played on paper....the Oilers have finished ahead of the Flames in GA the past two seasons despite the Flames having Gio, Brodie and Hamilton on the roster and even adding Hamonic (-21) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Oilers have the better goalie, and their young defensemen (Larsson, Klefbom, Benning and Nurse) are under 25 and still getting better and better

The Flames have a nice set of offensive defensemen but are vastly overrated in their defensive abilities and the proof is there.

Let me see if I understand this reasoning:

The Flames have finished ahead of the Oilers in GF over the last two years despite the Oilers having McDavid, Draisaitl and Maroon on the roster and even adding Jokinen (28 points) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Flames have the better offensive team and their young forwards (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk) are all under 24 and still getting better and better.

The Oliers have a nice pair of offensive forwards but are vastly overrated in their offensive abilities and the proof is there.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

Sekera replaces Hamonic IMO

and the game isn't played on paper....the Oilers have finished ahead of the Flames in GA the past two seasons despite the Flames having Gio, Brodie and Hamilton on the roster and even adding Hamonic (-21) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Oilers have the better goalie, and their young defensemen (Larsson, Klefbom, Benning and Nurse) are under 25 and still getting better and better

The Flames have a nice set of offensive defensemen but are vastly overrated in their defensive abilities and the proof is there.

Well except for Nurse who has the IQ of a piece of furniture and Benning could basically be the new version of Mancini or whatever his name was who had a solid year then went bleah.

Nobody is going to trade the Oilers blueline for the Flames Blueline. And while nobody would trade the Flames front line for the Oilers front line, I doubt that anyone is going to trade the Oilers bottom 9 for the Flames bottom 9.

You're right on the goaltending, Talbot is stellar, though I doubt that he comes close to replicating last season. I think that the goals against difference between the Flames and the Oilers was 9 goals or .1 goals per game, and I think that straight right there it points to the difference between a Stellar goaltender having a season for the Ages and a Flames duo that was underwhelming to be kind.

Frankly I think if I was an Oilers fan, sitting back drinking my government generic brand bosco and snacking on my wheel of government cheese that I would be sweating that things went way to well and perfect last year. No injuries, a unsustainable performance by Talbot, one guy carrying my offense.

Versus No Sekera until Jan, Russell getting more minutes. The fact that pretty much my whole team offensively was carried by one guy and line and that my team has no offense from the blueline, and that if Draisaitl doesn't get his 9 mil that he won't be at training camp, and if he gets seperated from McDavid that he's underwhelming. Then, I'd look at the easy schedule that we got last year from an NHL that was tired of the Oilers embarrassing the NHL on a international level.

And then at that point, if I was an Oiler fan, I'd take a bite of that bitter bitter welfare cheese, and then take a swig of my watered down Bosco and mutter to myself "They're right, Edmonton is no good".

Then I'd hear the clatter as that chip fell off of my shoulders and I could hear the whistling sound of my rather large ego deflating.

If I was an Oilers fan.

[AC]

Originally Posted by John Doe

Let me see if I understand this reasoning:

[Jason14h]

It funny cause I actually think both sides are semi-correct

1. Oilers offense is held back by defence who can barely make a 10 foot pass onto a player stick. Flames offense is boosted by the big 3.

2. Flames defense is held back by years of below average to horrid goaltender, while the Oilers have been propped up by their goaltender.

Both teams have 1 or 2 big question marks. Whichever gets over them first will be a perennial (IMO) conference finals challenger.

It actually makes the battle of Alberta fun as the teams are constructed differently.

[djsFlames]

Yeah the GA the past two seasons was about 80% on goaltending. Did you see how bad it was? The SA were not high in comparison with the league, but the goalies still let that defence core down with constant untimely goals. Hamonic had a rough year, and has a good track record beyond that of being a more defensive-minded guy, so cherry picking a single season and expecting that to be the continuation/norm is a little silly, don't you think? Also worth noting the Flames were a markedly better team defensively with Stone as the #4, as their excellent record in the last third showed (I'd argue it was more on team play than Elliott getting hot, most goalies would've won 8-10 in a row the way they were playing). Now you're keeping Stone, giving him easier duties, and adding Hamonic who has all the potential to rebound.

Oilers have a better goalie as it stands, but their blue line is paper thin, and you can't bank on young d-men to fill out their potential until they actually do. Using "they're young and only improving!" is reminiscent of Oilers fans talking about their '07-15 cores and repeatedly falling back on potential as an argument to why they'll be good tomorrow (etc, etc, etc), whereas the Flames have 5 proven guys that can deliver pretty high end, top 4 play that you don't have to cross your fingers for to pan out. They're already there. Sekera will provide the Oilers with a boost, but he will surely not be playing good hockey right off the hop coming off a long term injury like that.

Let's see if Talbot can carry a limping blue line this year, that was already not up to snuff. He's good enough to do it, but it's not a given. If the Flames get better goaltending from Smith than they did from Hiller/Elliott, which isn't a high bar to surpass - even league average - then they'll be a much stronger defensive team that can also afford an injury here or there with their depth. And that'll be due to the great structure of their blueline, not the efforts of 1-2 guys. Banking on the latter is a dangerous game, and I expect it to bite (or-burn) the Oilers in the rear end at some point. Likely when their luck runs out on the injury front.

[Gaudfather]

Just thought I would leave this here

Spoiler!

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It funny cause I actually think both sides are semi-correct

1. Oilers offense is held back by defence who can barely make a 10 foot pass onto a player stick.

The oilers need a guy like two time Stanley cup champion Justin Schultz on their back end.

Question, if the oilers win the cup, does "lotto ball" get it's name on the cup?

[Plaedo]

Please see how Edmonton compares to Calgary in regards to having enough star-ppwer to win the Cup.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...to-win-the-cuphttp://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...to-win-the-cup

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by John Doe

Let me see if I understand this reasoning:

The Flames have finished ahead of the Oilers in GF over the last two years despite the Oilers having McDavid, Draisaitl and Maroon on the roster and even adding Jokinen (28 points) won't move the needle much...and why will it change?

Flames didn't finish ahead of the Oilers in GF last season.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Yeah the GA the past two seasons was about 80% on goaltending. Did you see how bad it was? The SA were not high in comparison with the league, but the goalies still let that defence core down with constant untimely goals. Hamonic had a rough year, and has a good track record beyond that of being a more defensive-minded guy, so cherry picking a single season and expecting that to be the continuation/norm is a little silly, don't you think? Also worth noting the Flames were a markedly better team defensively with Stone as the #4, as their excellent record in the last third showed (I'd argue it was more on team play than Elliott getting hot, most goalies would've won 8-10 in a row the way they were playing). Now you're keeping Stone, giving him easier duties, and adding Hamonic who has all the potential to rebound.

Oilers have a better goalie as it stands, but their blue line is paper thin, and you can't bank on young d-men to fill out their potential until they actually do. Using "they're young and only improving!" is reminiscent of Oilers fans talking about their '07-15 cores and repeatedly falling back on potential as an argument to why they'll be good tomorrow (etc, etc, etc), whereas the Flames have 5 proven guys that can deliver pretty high end, top 4 play that you don't have to cross your fingers for to pan out. They're already there. Sekera will provide the Oilers with a boost, but he will surely not be playing good hockey right off the hop coming off a long term injury like that.

Let's see if Talbot can carry a limping blue line this year, that was already not up to snuff. He's good enough to do it, but it's not a given. If the Flames get better goaltending from Smith than they did from Hiller/Elliott, which isn't a high bar to surpass - even league average - then they'll be a much stronger defensive team that can also afford an injury here or there with their depth. And that'll be due to the great structure of their blueline, not the efforts of 1-2 guys. Banking on the latter is a dangerous game, and I expect it to bite (or-burn) the Oilers in the rear end at some point. Likely when their luck runs out on the injury front.

Flames goaltending was pretty close to league average last season.

It's not like they were the Dallas Stars getting last place goaltending.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by Plaedo

Please see how Edmonton compares to Calgary in regards to having enough star-ppwer to win the Cup.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...to-win-the-cuphttp://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...to-win-the-cup

Poor Vancouver.....LOL

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Flames goaltending was pretty close to league average last season...

Nope. The Flames were bottom third:

1. Columbus Blue Jackets 0.923
2. Washington Capitals 0.922
3. Anaheim Ducks 0.919
4. Montréal Canadiens 0.919
5. Chicago Blackhawks 0.918
6. Buffalo Sabres 0.918
7. Minnesota Wild 0.917
8. Ottawa Senators 0.915
9. Edmonton Oilers 0.914
10. Pittsburgh Penguins 0.914
11. New York Rangers 0.913
12. Toronto Maple Leafs 0.913
13. San Jose Sharks 0.912
14. Nashville Predators 0.911
15. Florida Panthers 0.911
16. Tampa Bay Lightning 0.91
17. New York Islanders 0.909
18. Vancouver Canucks 0.908
19. Arizona Coyotes 0.908
20. St. Louis Blues 0.907
    
21. Calgary Flames 0.907
22. New Jersey Devils 0.906
23. Los Angeles Kings 0.905
24. Boston Bruins 0.905
25. Detroit Red Wings 0.903
26. Carolina Hurricanes 0.901
27. Philadelphia Flyers 0.901
28. Winnipeg Jets 0.899
    Colorado Avalanche 0.894
    Dallas Stars 0.893

[Erick Estrada]

The last time the Flames got league average goaltending was the first year of Hiller/Ramo. After that it's either been historically bad 2015/16 or bottom 1/3 like last season.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Nope. The Flames were bottom third:

1. Columbus Blue Jackets 0.923
2. Washington Capitals 0.922
3. Anaheim Ducks 0.919
4. Montréal Canadiens 0.919
5. Chicago Blackhawks 0.918
6. Buffalo Sabres 0.918
7. Minnesota Wild 0.917
8. Ottawa Senators 0.915
9. Edmonton Oilers 0.914
10. Pittsburgh Penguins 0.914
11. New York Rangers 0.913
12. Toronto Maple Leafs 0.913
13. San Jose Sharks 0.912
14. Nashville Predators 0.911
15. Florida Panthers 0.911
16. Tampa Bay Lightning 0.91
17. New York Islanders 0.909
18. Vancouver Canucks 0.908
19. Arizona Coyotes 0.908
20. St. Louis Blues 0.907
    
21. Calgary Flames 0.907
22. New Jersey Devils 0.906
23. Los Angeles Kings 0.905
24. Boston Bruins 0.905
25. Detroit Red Wings 0.903
26. Carolina Hurricanes 0.901
27. Philadelphia Flyers 0.901
28. Winnipeg Jets 0.899
    Colorado Avalanche 0.894
    Dallas Stars 0.893

The difference between .907 and .911 (Average) is very small.

I don't think I'm wrong in stating that the Flames netminding was pretty close to average.

I mean they are tied with the St.Louis Blues at .907 and the Blues are in the middle third on that list.

[Plaedo]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The difference between .907 and .911 (Average) is very small.

I don't think I'm wrong in stating that the Flames netminding was pretty close to average.

I mean they are tied with the St.Louis Blues at .907 and the Blues are in the middle third on that list.

The Flames were pretty close to being 27th in the league for goaltending.