Utah Nurse Arrested For "Refusing" Illegal Blood Draw on Patient

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Which recently banned user is Enigma? An account that has sat dormant for 15 years. Jumps right in, playing devil's advocate without even making himself aware of the story he's arguing.

I'm banned?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[para transit fellow]

Looks like detective Payne also lost his job as a paramedic

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...03342189732144

Not a good strategy to use your second job as a threat.....

[OMG!WTF!]

The hospital also barred police from contact with nurses and from even being in patient care areas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9bf449f3e21c

[para transit fellow]

I keep thinking that if a cop (or anyone) came in with a gunshot wound, the hospital staff will react to the situation with maximum effort. I have no illusion that the emergency staff would never let this incident get in the way of doing what needed to be done.

Detective Payne ?? (And the police superior who gave instructions to arrest if the nurse resisted) .....not so much...

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Looks like detective Payne also lost his job as a paramedic

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...03342189732144

Not a good strategy to use your second job as a threat.....

Called it. What a dumbass.

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The hospital also barred police from contact with nurses and from even being in patient care areas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9bf449f3e21c

Guy just started a royal poopshow. *smh*

[para transit fellow]

I just realized there is a term to describe Detective Payne....

Unemployable

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Guy just started a royal poopshow. *smh*

Well yes but really the real poopshow was started by the police department not actually doing anything until being forced to due to a viral video. Had the police department responded appropriately the video likely never really becomes viral. Well it might but the context would be drastically changed.

It gets even worse given the officers were already trying to cover up their mistake AND the department was seemingly willing to help cover up the attempted cover up.

Not to derail but this is why various movements get started that stem from distrust of police. There are a lot of dirty cops and departments. Most are definitely good people doing the job for the right reasons but this is a profession that you absolutely need to have less idiots than other professions. Departments have to do a better job screening applicants and they have to stop the cover ups (i.e. the less than clean cops can't be put in positions of power).

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

I just realized there is a term to describe Detective Payne....

Unemployable

Transient?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

I just realized there is a term to describe Detective Payne....

Unemployable

He'd be a great creepy clown.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

He'd be a great creepy clown.

he has a Mr. Lahey vibe to him.
maybe he should run a trailer park.


one part of this story that bugs me
it the reaction by the security and university police.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/04/health...ter/index.html
"
"Obviously, I was very frightened, and I think that since this has happened, I've been able to, sort of, surmise that I feel betrayed. I feel betrayed by the police officers. I feel betrayed by my university police and security."

She said she asked hospital security for help "to have someone protect me because I felt unsafe from Officer Payne from the beginning," she said. How did the university police and security respond?
"By just standing there, looking at their phones, telling me that they couldn't protect me," she said."

[OMG!WTF!]

I get why everyone just stood around. You're allowed to resist an illegal arrest but I can not imagine too many people being able to determine within a couple seconds that an illegal arrest is happening. Looking back on it I sure everybody would jump in to defend her knowing what they now know. Questioning his authority is what caused the problem in the first place. Defending her would have likely made it all much worse.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I get why everyone just stood around. You're allowed to resist an illegal arrest but I can not imagine too many people being able to determine within a couple seconds that an illegal arrest is happening. Looking back on it I sure everybody would jump in to defend her knowing what they now know. Questioning his authority is what caused the problem in the first place. Defending her would have likely made it all much worse.

I think that's the issue she's bringing up though not spelling out...Campus police/security are ill equipped to make such a call. Be it lack of training or lack of understanding the rules the hospital operates under they didn't do their job. Furthermore, it seems thus far that the university fails to see this as a problem. The job isn't just one of chasing down people who did something wrong it's also about preventing crime...of ALL types. They failed.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The hospital also barred police from contact with nurses and from even being in patient care areas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9bf449f3e21c

Hah. Nurse arrested for upholding hospital policy? We'll show them! We'll make hospital policy even stricter!

In the future:

Officer: I need to get in here, I'm conducting an investigation and the individual in that unit is part of it.
Hospital staff: I can't let you in there. It's a patient care area with nurses in it, and hospital policy prevents me from letting you talk to them.
Officer: YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!

... Not that they shouldn't do it, I just don't see how this change of policy does anything to prevent the problem from reoccurring. The police are the only ones who can do that.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Hah. Nurse arrested for upholding hospital policy? We'll show them! We'll make hospital policy even stricter!
... Not that they shouldn't do it, I just don't see how this change of policy does anything to prevent the problem from reoccurring. The police are the only ones who can do that.

I think it does a couple things. The number one concern inside a hospital should be health care. I can't think of any reason a cop needs to be in a patient care area anyway.

But more importantly it separates the two potential alpha dogs. A "house supervisor" telling a cop someone else says he can't get a blood sample really takes away the face to face challenge we saw. That was the whole issue in reality.

Also just having a very simple trespassing rule is something that cops can easily understand and accommodate. There's no buddy buddy with a doc or nurse to get what you want. You go through that door other cops get called to come take you away. Simple, attainable goals.

[Bagor]

I don't know.

What if the patient IS under arrest? Aren't they then under police custody?

Who ensures responsibility for making sure they don't abscond?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I don't know.

What if the patient IS under arrest? Aren't they then under police custody?

Who ensures responsibility for making sure they don't abscond?

Hospital security or city cops. I would assume they have something figured out in that scenario.

[Resolute 14]

The DA has asked the FBI to investigate the officers involved for civil rights violations, even has he investigates for state-level charges: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2d93c6ae51d1

[pseudoreality]

It looks like this cop is going to be a scape goat when the problem is systematic with cop culture and training. The cops weren't going to discipline the guy until it was made public.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

It looks like this cop is going to be a scape goat when the problem is systematic with cop culture and training. The cops weren't going to discipline the guy until it was made public.

Or alternatively, some cops were trying to keep it under the lid but failed, and now other cops are trying to get rid of those first cops.

It's not like "the cops" have a hivemind.

[pseudoreality]

Originally Posted by Itse

Or alternatively, some cops were trying to keep it under the lid but failed, and now other cops are trying to get rid of those first cops.

It's not like "the cops" have a hivemind.

No, but they have a culture of protecting their own that supersedes protecting the public.