06-20-2021, 09:22 PM
|
#1
|
Scoring Winger
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Victoria
|
Hall of Fame Goalies
I found the argument that Marc-Andre Fleury was not a Hall of famer polarizing. With a bit of research seeing Chris Osgood, Curtis Joseph, John Vanbiesbrouck, Andy Moog, Ron Hextall and Mike Vernon not in the Hall of Frame (HOF) surprises me. All of these players have either won championships, had records or personal awards BUT most importantly showed longevity with very good stats for their eras!!!
First see data based on their total wins ranking and overall stats:
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/reco...s-leaders.html
My argument:
Up and until 1989 there was a goalie inducted into the HHOF almost every year. Suddenly in 1990 they decided to completely rewrite what a HHOF goalie was. Despite the league expanding from 21 to eventually over 30 teams only Grant Fuhr, Patrick Roy, Ed Belfour, Dominik Hasek, and Rogie Vachon (1966-81) are considered HHOF since then. With more teams it has definitely gotten harder to get into the HHOF!!? I get there is a time lag with inductees but why is there so few goalies in the HHOF age > 1965? The goalie is the most important position in hockey is it not? Why is the HHOF not celebrating Osgood (dominant win % and multiple championships or players like Curtis Joseph with 943gp, 454 Wins). For me the wins should be most important factor because as a goalie that's all that matters at the end of the day playing on a stacked team or not. Yes Stanley Cups or Vezinas matter but not having one or the other shouldn't break your chance from being in the HHOF if you dominated a stat like wins or SV% with an on OK teams like Vanbiesbrouck or Joseph did.
Where is your line for the HHOF for goalies inductees? Who should be in the HHOF?
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CASe333 For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-20-2021, 09:25 PM
|
#2
|
Franchise Player
|
I think the old timers don't respect modern goalies because of their equipment
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 09:28 PM
|
#3
|
Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
|
Well you’re missing someone who’s kinda important in your recent inductee list.
CuJo is interesting, is he not the all time leader in losses? I think he should be in the hall.
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 09:31 PM
|
#4
|
That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
|
HHOF has clearly established a low bar for skaters. I’d say let them all in.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cecil Terwilliger For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-20-2021, 09:34 PM
|
#5
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Winning goalies are often disregarded as benefitting from stacked teams, especially Osgood and Vernon. MAF probably as well. I’d bet Price walks in.
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 09:59 PM
|
#6
|
Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MTL
|
Interesting seeing as the bar for skaters is waaaaay too low.
But in all honesty I agree with the standards for goalie entry and wish they would do something similar for skaters.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Funkhouser For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-20-2021, 10:00 PM
|
#7
|
Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MTL
|
Of current NHLers, I think Price could get in…and that’s about it
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 10:31 PM
|
#8
|
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
|
Quick will get in.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to troutman For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-20-2021, 10:59 PM
|
#9
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Van Island
|
Lundquist? Luongo? Missing cups really hurts their cases.
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 11:14 PM
|
#10
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Winning goalies are often disregarded as benefitting from stacked teams, especially Osgood and Vernon. MAF probably as well. I’d bet Price walks in.
|
Price will get in on his international record alone.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
|
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 11:37 PM
|
#11
|
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw
Price will get in on his international record alone.
|
?
He’s only played 10 games for Canada since turning pro.
|
|
|
06-20-2021, 11:52 PM
|
#12
|
Franchise Player
|
The way the Hall of Fame treats goalies is disgraceful.
Curtis Joseph is a hall of Famer. He’s top 10 in wins, made two Olympic teams and a World Cup team, and is one of the most iconic goalies of his generation.
He doesn’t have hardware? Maybe cuz some guys named Hasek, Roy and Brodeur played At the same time.
He played on many awful teams who only achieved noteworthy things because he was their goalie.
Vernon has four trips to the Finals and two rings. #### you that’s not a hall of fame career. What else do you want him to do.
Giguere has a Conn Smythe in defeat and a championship. That’s not worth remembering? His Conn Smythe game tape is some of the most memorable net minding of the 21st century.
Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a chip. Put him in, I don’t care if he only did it for six or seven years.
Chris Osgood. All Chris Osgood ever did was win. His playoff save percentage the last two years against the Crosby Penguins was never below
.926, and the year he won his GAA was 1.55! Chris Osgood was a gamer who wasn’t going to lose you the game, and would keep you in your share of them.
Fleury has a better career save percentage than Brodeur, the same career GAA as Roy, and he’s 3rd all time in wins. He’s a former 1st overall pick with three rings who’s been to three Finals as a starter on two different teams.
If that’s not a Hall of Famer to you, you do better.
__________________
Mom and Dad love you, Rowan - February 15, 2024
Last edited by GreenLantern2814; 06-20-2021 at 11:54 PM.
|
|
|
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to GreenLantern2814 For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-21-2021, 12:48 AM
|
#13
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brisbane
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman
?
He’s only played 10 games for Canada since turning pro.
|
10-0 with 3 shutouts, 0.99 GAA, and 2 golds (one Olympic, one world championships).
__________________
The masses of humanity have always had to surf.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FireGilbert For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-21-2021, 06:09 AM
|
#14
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMike
Lundquist? Luongo? Missing cups really hurts their cases.
|
Probably true. I've always found it frustrating how cup wins seem to be what is part of the silent criteria for a goalie. Both these players have made it to the finals, that should count for something. They both also have multiple Vezina and Hart nominations to their credit. Both were deemed the best at their positions at some point during their careers, or at least in the discussion. Both near the top on the all-time wins list.
If it were up to me, they'd both be a lock. As should Fleury, easily. It will be a travesty if Fleury doesn't get in. Price should be in to, easily.
Going back, I think Tim Thomas should be in as well. Late bloomer, but what an insane peak he had. One of the best peaks all-time IMO.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Huntingwhale For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-21-2021, 07:31 AM
|
#15
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
|
Tom Barrasso says hi.
__________________
It's only game. Why you heff to be mad?
|
|
|
06-21-2021, 08:23 AM
|
#16
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
HHOF has clearly established a low bar for skaters. I’d say let them all in.
|
I’ll just assume you got autocorrected from Lowe bar
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
|
|
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to powderjunkie For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-21-2021, 08:48 AM
|
#17
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
|
I've been complaining about the ridiculously high standard that goalies are held to by the HHOF committee for years.
Only 21 goalies in NHL history have won at least 8 games in the Stanley Cup Final. Of those, 2 are still active (Quick and Murray) and one recently retired (Crawford).
16 of the 18 HHOF eligible goalies who have won at least 8 games in the Final are in the HHOF. The only 2 who aren't are Osgood and Vernon.
They should both be in there. Barrasso too.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
|
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to getbak For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-21-2021, 08:57 AM
|
#18
|
Franchise Player
|
The bar is hilariously low for skaters, and absurdly high for goalies.
MAF is a hall of famer, there should be no doubt, but...
Kevin Lowe, ladies and gentlemen.
|
|
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CroFlames For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-21-2021, 09:02 AM
|
#19
|
Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
The way the Hall of Fame treats goalies is disgraceful.
Curtis Joseph is a hall of Famer. He’s top 10 in wins, made two Olympic teams and a World Cup team, and is one of the most iconic goalies of his generation.
He doesn’t have hardware? Maybe cuz some guys named Hasek, Roy and Brodeur played At the same time.
He played on many awful teams who only achieved noteworthy things because he was their goalie.
Vernon has four trips to the Finals and two rings. #### you that’s not a hall of fame career. What else do you want him to do.
Giguere has a Conn Smythe in defeat and a championship. That’s not worth remembering? His Conn Smythe game tape is some of the most memorable net minding of the 21st century.
Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a chip. Put him in, I don’t care if he only did it for six or seven years.
Chris Osgood. All Chris Osgood ever did was win. His playoff save percentage the last two years against the Crosby Penguins was never below
.926, and the year he won his GAA was 1.55! Chris Osgood was a gamer who wasn’t going to lose you the game, and would keep you in your share of them.
Fleury has a better career save percentage than Brodeur, the same career GAA as Roy, and he’s 3rd all time in wins. He’s a former 1st overall pick with three rings who’s been to three Finals as a starter on two different teams.
If that’s not a Hall of Famer to you, you do better.
|
Since 1980 only Fuhr, Roy, Brodeur, and Billy Smith I believe have been to the finals 4 or more times as a goalie.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
|
|
|
06-21-2021, 09:04 AM
|
#20
|
Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MTL
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleK
Tom Barrasso says hi.
|
Tell him we're not interested and to get off our porch before I grab my shotgun
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Funkhouser For This Useful Post:
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:29 PM.
|
|