2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Poe969]

People griping about this fan base not having the patience for a rebuild aren't seeing the big picture. If they don't rebuild, this team is trying to sell the fans "maybe". That's it. There are no surefire prospects or an elite core or really good young players that will improve with time. Maybe. They might get hot and make the playoffs...maybe. Maybe they might be fighting for a playoff spot down the stretch. They might just be garbage again. Maybe they'll win the lottery. Maybe. That's all this team has right now and that's all they have until they fix things.

Doing an actual rebuild sells hope. If they can draft Wright, Bedard or whoever else the next couple of top end prospects are, the fans will be excited for the future. The oilers have McDavid and Draisitl, for the first few years the fans were just happy to have them and were excited to see them grow and as much as we hate to admit it, they're better than the Flames right now.

This core...the entire team, doesn't really give much hope to the fans. There's more resentment than anything else IMO. The fans watched this team disappoint year after year and when they finally got a high pick, it was mismanaged and left us with nothing. This team needs to get rid of players on this team and start new, a team of young players with something to prove who are trying to make it. It's a poorly built team.

Getting high end pick this year while shipping out as many players from the current core would symbolize hope. For too long this team hasn't been good enough to be a contender and hasn't been bad enough to really bottom out. There hasn't been much hope for this franchise in years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Do you know what a "maybe" is? A draft pick. Regardless of how high, they are all maybes. There are no guarantees. You could draft Sam Bennett or Nolan Patrick with one of those high picks. That is as maybe as you can get, and those maybes turned into busts really quickly. So instead of having a first line Draisaitl level talent, capable of carrying a line, you get a borderline third line complimentary mucker that leaves you shaking your head. There are no guarantees.

The same can be said about tanking for a better draft pick. With the advent of the lottery system, there are no guarantees you're going to get a top pick. Someone can come in and win the golden ticket and leave you drafting yet another maybe. So all this bull#### about tank for a first pick is just garbage. It's a crapshoot. If you really want to be concerned about the development of the team, dump all over Treliving for his asset management. Trading away draft picks and holding on to players too long has hurt the team. Asset management is what drives a team toward success, and Treliving sucks at asset management.

[Poe969]

There's still hope in draft picks. Look at this roster and tell me there is hope for them. Who would you rather have moving forward: Tkachuck, Gaudreau, Lindholm or Bedard, Wright and Power?

Sure draft picks are a maybe but there's more hope in an 19 year old maybe who has the potential to be a superstar then there is in a team of guys who have shown they can't get it done.

[Jore]

I would take the "maybe" of Bedard, Wright, and Michov over the "maybe" of whatever this organization has been doing for 30 years turning into this team into a contender

[Vinny01]

I think there are equal chances that if the Flames go into a tankbuild they become the next Oilers and Sabres in the sense we go a decade + where just making it in the playoffs and losing in the first round would be something we could only wish for.

I look at Ottawa after 4 years in the tank and I struggle to see that team doing anything more than what this current Flames team has accomplished (making the playoffs a few times, maybe win a round probably not win a division)

After a weird pandemic CFL style season I don’t think it is the right time to nuke the team especially after the Flames signed a goalie and coach for the now. I think there is a good chance that rebuild is coming but I prefer they try to alter the core like they did in the 2018 offseason and see what next season brings. A decision on Johnny is key as he can’t be lost for nothing

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Poe969

There's still hope in draft picks. Look at this roster and tell me there is hope for them. Who would you rather have moving forward: Tkachuck, Gaudreau, Lindholm or Bedard, Wright and Power?

Sure draft picks are a maybe but there's more hope in an 19 year old maybe who has the potential to be a superstar then there is in a team of guys who have shown they can't get it done.

You can’t guarantee the first pick though. Buffalo has been trying for 7 years and only got the pick once. So your question is irrelevant the Flames won’t pick 1st 3x in a row. It is like me saying Johnny, Tkachuk and Lindholm will all have career years over the next 3. Could happen right? Is it likely? Hell no

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by New Era

Do you know what a "maybe" is? A draft pick. Regardless of how high, they are all maybes. There are no guarantees. You could draft Sam Bennett or Nolan Patrick with one of those high picks. That is as maybe as you can get, and those maybes turned into busts really quickly. So instead of having a first line Draisaitl level talent, capable of carrying a line, you get a borderline third line complimentary mucker that leaves you shaking your head. There are no guarantees.

The same can be said about tanking for a better draft pick. With the advent of the lottery system, there are no guarantees you're going to get a top pick. Someone can come in and win the golden ticket and leave you drafting yet another maybe. So all this bull#### about tank for a first pick is just garbage. It's a crapshoot. If you really want to be concerned about the development of the team, dump all over Treliving for his asset management. Trading away draft picks and holding on to players too long has hurt the team. Asset management is what drives a team toward success, and Treliving sucks at asset management.

Bedard probably has a 95%-99% chance of being a star barring some sort of force majeure event.

That's about as close as guarantees get in hockey.

Edit: Okay, you're way ahead of me.
The uncertain part is actually getting to draft him. The Calgary Flames have never picked top 3, and I don't know why that would suddenly change any time soon.
In that sense, the guarantee is that the Flames wouldn't pick him.

[Poe969]

You can't guarantee Wright and Bedard would turn this team into a contender buy you can guarantee this team as is just isn't good enough.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jore

I would take the "maybe" of Bedard, Wright, and Michov over the "maybe" of whatever this organization has been doing for 30 years turning into this team into a contender

Would you prefer the maybe of being an absolute joke for 15 years? We see what happens when a crap market embraces a loser culture.

What better way to enjoy McDavid’s prime by being the most embarrassing organization in the league. Are people forgetting how brutal it has been to be an Oilers fan the last 15 years?

I would rather roll the dice with the Hall of Fame coach who has won 17 playoff rounds as a coach, who is here to win and came out of retirement to do it. The rebuild can happen at that point but I just think tanking after a bad season in a weird environment doesn’t make sense

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Poe969

You can't guarantee Wright and Bedard would turn this team into a contender buy you can guarantee this team as is just isn't good enough.

I do agree with you there and I would rather blow it up than come back with the same roster. I am more focused on Eichel than Wright at this stage and hope the team is aggressive in shaking up the roster. Give a revised group another run with the Sutter culture set with a normal division, and fans in the building. I think Calgary could easily finish top 3 in the division. The fact is they go 2-1 in the next 3 they would make the playoffs in the pacific.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Would you prefer the maybe of being an absolute joke for 15 years? We see what happens when a crap market embraces a loser culture.

What better way to enjoy McDavid’s prime by being the most embarrassing organization in the league. Are people forgetting how brutal it has been to be an Oilers fan the last 15 years?

I would rather roll the dice with the Hall of Fame coach who has won 17 playoff rounds as a coach, who is here to win and came out of retirement to do it. The rebuild can happen at that point but I just think tanking after a bad season in a weird environment doesn’t make sense

Flames winning one playoff round in the last 17 years is pretty much a joke. You make it seem like the Flames are some hotshot contenders the past 5 years winning rounds but just can't get over that extra hump to win the cup.

You have been on this site for a long time I know you ain't drinking the Koolaid and thinking this team with a few changes is competing for the cup.

[Toonage]

Right?

To everyone afraid of what the Flames might become, you have to see what they currently are don't you?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Flames winning one playoff round in the last 17 years is pretty much a joke. You make it seem like the Flames are some hotshot contenders the past 5 years winning rounds but just can't get over that extra hump to win the cup.

You have been on this site for a long time I know you ain't drinking the Koolaid and thinking this team with a few changes is competing for the cup.

I don’t think I am making them out to be a hotshot team on the verge of winning. But you can’t tell me that a fanbase that has seemingly already given up on our 23 year old future captain. People are running him out of town because he is only on pace for 60pts.

I do think this team could make some changes and be a playoff team and I want to see what happens with Sutter pushing the buttons and having an elite goalie in net.

I can’t think of a single organization that shifted to tank build when most of their core are still in their mid-20’s

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think I am making them out to be a hotshot team on the verge of winning. But you can’t tell me that a fanbase that has seemingly already given up on our 23 year old future captain. People are running him out of town because he is only on pace for 60pts.

I do think this team could make some changes and be a playoff team and I want to see what happens with Sutter pushing the buttons and having an elite goalie in net.

I can’t think of a single organization that shifted to tank build when most of their core are still in their mid-20’s

The Ottawa Senator's core was mostly in their mid 20s in 2017-2018. Stone, 25, was over a point per game. Karlsson, 27, had 60+ points. Hoffman (27), Duchene (26), and others were eventually traded. They ended up picking top 4.
But obviously, that wasn't a situation that you would want to model the Flames after. Their ownership is and was pretty embarrassing. The Hoffman and Karlsson debacle was interesting, to say the least.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The Ottawa Senator's core was mostly in their mid 20s in 2017-2018. Stone, 25, was over a point per game. Karlsson, 27, had 60+ points. Hoffman (27), Duchene (26), and others were eventually traded. They ended up picking top 4.
But obviously, that wasn't a situation that you would want to model the Flames after. Their ownership is and was pretty embarrassing. The Hoffman and Karlsson debacle was interesting, to say the least.

Don’t get me wrong I think there is a reasonable chance the Flames could be heading down that path but I am just not there right now. I want to get back to normal and see where this team lands next year. End of the day I would rather strip it down than come back with the same group but I am looking at changes coming and a different mix of players. I want an offseason like 2018 minus the brutal Neal contract.

[dissentowner]

The crazy thing is the more I look at the whole Covid thing, Monahan's injury, I don't see any change coming to this core. I think JG will re-up. I don't see the Flames giving up on Tkachuk. Mony is hurt and won't move for fair value. I don't see anyone taking on Backlund. Lindy isn't going anywhere. The only piece that might move is Gio.

[TOfan]

Seems like a lot of people are advocating for a rebuild with the hope that the Flames win a lottery and get to pick Wright/Beddard/Michov. Even if the Flames bottom out, their odds are still in favour of the house (not a gambler, so correct me if I'm wrong).

What if they miss on winning those picks and end up with a handful of Taylor Hall's, RNH's and a Yakupov's? I would imagine the odds are in favour of that happening.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Do you know what a "maybe" is? A draft pick. Regardless of how high, they are all maybes. There are no guarantees. You could draft Sam Bennett or Nolan Patrick with one of those high picks. That is as maybe as you can get, and those maybes turned into busts really quickly. So instead of having a first line Draisaitl level talent, capable of carrying a line, you get a borderline third line complimentary mucker that leaves you shaking your head. There are no guarantees.

The same can be said about tanking for a better draft pick. With the advent of the lottery system, there are no guarantees you're going to get a top pick. Someone can come in and win the golden ticket and leave you drafting yet another maybe. So all this bull#### about tank for a first pick is just garbage. It's a crapshoot. If you really want to be concerned about the development of the team, dump all over Treliving for his asset management. Trading away draft picks and holding on to players too long has hurt the team. Asset management is what drives a team toward success, and Treliving sucks at asset management.

Yeah, there is no guarantees on any side of this conversation.

The data available does show that Stanley Cup winning teams are built with top-3 draft pick, but not every top-3 draft pick wins a Stanley Cup.

I think the closest "plan" you can get to properly building a contending team is:

1 - Draft in the top-3 (hopefully at least twice), and do so in years where centres and defensemen are the strength of the top of the draft
2 - Be one of the best managed teams in the league
3 - Be one of the best coached teams in the league

Skipping any of these three steps seems to be a recipe for guaranteed failure. It's a competitive league and "keeping up with the Jones'" is effectively the name of the game. Why were the Flames so good in the late '80s? To combat the Oilers of the late 80s.

In today's league, you just don't win a Stanley Cup without the Elite gamebreaking talent found at the top-end of the draft. The Blues are the closest thing to doing that without a top-3 pick (they had a #4), but they also caught lightning in a bottle with a goaltending performance that hasn't been seen since Kiprusoff in 2004. Going back further takes you to the Bruins where they had what looks to be the best run of 2nd round picks I can remember seeing a team hit on as they landed the best defensive centre in the league (Bergeron) at #45 in 2003, Krejci at #63 in 2004, Lucic at #50 in 2006, and then Marchand in the 3rd round at #71 in 2006, and that was all backed up by a defensive generational talent in Chara who landed their via free agency (...and they also had a #2 overall in Seguin playing, so...yeah)

...also it had been a long time since I had written "Kiprusoff"...and I can't look at his name without thinking "that looks wrong".

[Poe969]

So, to win you need a top tier talent. To get a top tier talent, you need to draft it. In order to get the pick that will give you top tier talent, you need to bottom out.

There is no guarantee you will get the top pick if you bottom out. There's also no guarantee that if you get that pick it will turn into that kind of player. No guarantees but a chance.

Keeping this team together does guarantee you won't get a top pick. Keeping this team together almost guarantees you won't win the cup.

I would rather take a chance at getting a top talent instead of being ok with being ok. This is an instance where change for the sake of change is a good thing. The team has shown they aren't good enough year after year. Why keep trying the same thing over and over? It's not like they'll all of a sudden figure it out or pick up that one piece that will push them over the top. Keeping this team together is just admitting they're ok with being ok.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Jore

I would take the "maybe" of Bedard, Wright, and Michov over the "maybe" of whatever this organization has been doing for 30 years turning into this team into a contender

It’s never a guarantee that we would land one of those players.

Just ask AZ. They tanked and still landed D. Strome.