[GT] Flames at Ducks - Quack Quack

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Well we can talk about two things at once, let me know if you think Huberdeau has a good contract. I’ll go find some ####ty contracts for you hang on. Also no need to be such a dick, I know it’s super difficult of you but try to remember those self-control classes you presumably used to take.

If I'm being a dick, I'm doing it in retaliation. You started off by being a dick and have doubled down on it with every post since – while continuing to post utter nonsense.

Nobody is actually saying the things you're arguing against. The things you're arguing for, however, are looney tunes.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Not if I’m right tho, thanks for listing superstars lol

I didn't list them, bright guy. That was activeStick.

[Mr.Coffee]

Josh Anderson
Brendan Gallagher
Alex Killorn
Johnny Gaudreau
Patrik Laine
Darnell Nurse
Jack Campbell
Dubois
Some of the Senator players
Leaf contracts suck, Marner for example, wait a year or three on Nylander that’ll blow too
Benn and Seguin

Like holy #### man go through every team, every team has multiple ridiculous contracts that younger players could step in and achieve lesser production for MUCH lesser contract value.

Some stars are worth it as AaronGavey points out, but it’s pretty rare and I don’t have the time for this nonsense, don’t believe me we obviously disagree and I’m not interested in talking to jerks, so, move along.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I didn't list them, bright guy. That was activeStick.

AaronGavey “bright guy”

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

AaronGavey “bright guy”

Good grief. It hit the previous page.

OK, that's one point on which I was wrong. But it still wasn't me who listed the 6 superstars.

You, on the other hand, have been wrong about every single damn thing, and rude to back it up.

[GioforPM]

Nobody said Huberdeau is on a good contract. That said, it’s funny that the guys he’s being compared to scored goals off of assist by him tonight.

And yeah, he’s an assist man. In his good seasons he did score more, obviously, but he’s still an assist man.

It’s just odd that a rookie’s success and a previous 39 goal scorer bouncing back are being used to somehow criticize a different player. Like their success somehow makes Huberdeau’s struggles worse?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Josh Anderson
Brendan Gallagher
Alex Killorn
Johnny Gaudreau
Patrik Laine
Darnell Nurse
Jack Campbell
Dubois
Some of the Senator players
Leaf contracts suck, Marner for example, wait a year or three on Nylander that’ll blow too
Benn and Seguin

So… exactly three of the players on that list belong to the set of 28 in the salary bracket I asked for. So your considered opinion seems to be that most top-end contracts are bad, because out of 28, there are three bad ones but only six good ones. Way to make a point.

Like holy #### man go through every team, every team has multiple ridiculous contracts that younger players could step in and achieve lesser production for MUCH lesser contract value.

You can't have an entire team full of ELCs. Most people, when they're talking about contract values, specifically EXCLUDE ELCs because those players are not allowed to be paid according to their abilities.

Some stars are worth it as AaronGavey points out, but it’s pretty rare and I don’t have the time for this nonsense, don’t believe me we obviously disagree and I’m not interested in talking to jerks, so, move along.

I'm not going anywhere, certainly not on your say-so.

[Mr.Coffee]

I should be a bit clearer. My thesis is that if rookies can step in the NHL and do as well as Zary and Pospisil have (and others) then the difference between rookies and AHLers and NHLers is really not that great. I’ve made this same point in the past and not much has happened over time to discredit it. Sure some rookies don’t work out, but I think signing gigantic long term deals is a huge mistake. Huberdeau is the perfect example of that. We have 7 more years of this nonsense. The fact that Zary steps in and in year one is scoring more goals is pretty supportive of my point which seems to be missed by many and so maybe that’s on me poorly explaining it.
If you have to re-sign high profile players at the end of their ELC, it should be to short term deals. On those deals if you have to overpay at least you’re not locked in forever. There have been WAY too many bad deals and IMO WAY too much risk assumed by teams and the balance needs to be shifted back to players especially because the NHL operates with guaranteed contracts. Guaranteed contracts = laziness.

Huberdeau’s contract is a total joke and I think anybody stepping in to try and defend it looks very silly or is just debating for the sake of it like Jay Random here.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So… exactly three of the players on that list belong to the set of 28 in the salary bracket I asked for. So your considered opinion seems to be that most top-end contracts are bad, because out of 28, there are three bad ones but only six good ones. Way to make a point.



You can't have an entire team full of ELCs. Most people, when they're talking about contract values, specifically EXCLUDE ELCs because those players are not allowed to be paid according to their abilities.



I'm not going anywhere, certainly not on your say-so.

Wrong you decided to just make up this random 9.5 benchmark which I’ve already said (now three times) is not the barometer, obviously.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Who is defending the Huberdeau contract?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I should be a bit clearer. My thesis is that if rookies can step in the NHL and do as well as Zary and Pospisil have (and others) then the difference between rookies and AHLers and NHLers is really not that great. I’ve made this same point in the past and not much has happened over time to discredit it. Sure some rookies don’t work out, but I think signing gigantic long term deals is a huge mistake. Huberdeau is the perfect example of that. We have 7 more years of this nonsense. The fact that Zary steps in and in year one is scoring more goals is pretty supportive of my point which seems to be missed by many and so maybe that’s on me poorly explaining it.
If you have to re-sign high profile players at the end of their ELC, it should be to short term deals. On those deals if you have to overpay at least you’re not locked in forever. There have been WAY too many bad deals and IMO WAY too much risk assumed by teams and the balance needs to be shifted back to players especially because the NHL operates with guaranteed contracts. Guaranteed contracts = laziness.

Huberdeau’s contract is a total joke and I think anybody stepping in to try and defend it looks very silly or is just debating for the sake of it like Jay Random here.

Short term contracts for players coming off of a ELC that you think are part of your core is a disaster. After an ELC the goal should be to sign any good players for as much term as possible.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Short term contracts for players coming off of a ELC that you think are part of your core is a disaster. After an ELC the goal should be to sign any good players for as much term as possible.

Disagree, obviously, but the word “core player” is also vague a bit. If it’s a total superstar, sure, but look around the NHL, there are some large long term deals for not really core players.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I should be a bit clearer. My thesis is that if rookies can step in the NHL and do as well as Zary and Pospisil have (and others) then the difference between rookies and AHLers and NHLers is really not that great. I’ve made this same point in the past and not much has happened over time to discredit it.

Let us know the next time a team full of rookies and AHLers wins the Stanley Cup, and we'll consider your point made.

Sure some rookies don’t work out, but I think signing gigantic long term deals is a huge mistake. Huberdeau is the perfect example of that. We have 7 more years of this nonsense. The fact that Zary steps in and in year one is scoring more goals is pretty supportive of my point which seems to be missed by many and so maybe that’s on me poorly explaining it.

Yes, it is.

Don't like hearing it from me? GioforPM has also pointed out that ‘Huberdeau is an assist man’. Try comparing apples to apples, so to speak.

Saying Zary is better than Huberdeau because he has one more goal is laughable.

If you have to re-sign high profile players at the end of their ELC, it should be to short term deals. On those deals if you have to overpay at least you’re not locked in forever. There have been WAY too many bad deals and IMO WAY too much risk assumed by teams and the balance needs to be shifted back to players especially because the NHL operates with guaranteed contracts.

You mean like how Treliving signed Tkachuk to a three-year deal after his ELC, and then was forced to trade him away just as he was hitting his peak? ’Cos that worked out so well.

Huberdeau’s contract is a total joke and I think anybody stepping in to try and defend it looks very silly or is just debating for the sake of it like Jay Random here.

Nobody has said anything about defending Huberdeau's contract. We're just pointing out how silly it is for you to generalize from that to all large contracts.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Wrong you decided to just make up this random 9.5 benchmark which I’ve already said (now three times) is not the barometer, obviously.

All the players Aarongavey listed were making $9.5 million or more. If you're going to say there are only six veterans on good contracts but 100 on bad ones, then we can absolutely snow you under with scores of veterans making less money who are worth every penny of it. If we only get to count those six players at the top of the list, then you don't get to count every schmuck in the league. Compare apples to apples. Either compare top-paid players only, or widen the search and compare everyone not on an ELC.

[GioforPM]

How many years would you sign Austin Matthews to, Coffee?

[GioforPM]

I think what happened, especially when I look back at the edit to the first post about this, is that there was just some attempt to use Zary’s goal total (on a nice pass from Huberdeau) to randomly slam Huberdeau. Which happens on the regular, though usually if he misses a pass or hits a post. The, it was edited to expand it to all long term veteran contracts, because somehow it would be less of an attack.

[Mr.Coffee]

Matthews is a superstar, worth the contract. 8 yrs.

Nylander is not, watch him melt away in a year or two. Don’t ask me what I base that off of, can’t explain it very well lol

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think what happened, especially when I look back at the edit to the first post about this, is that there was just some attempt to use Zary’s goal total (on a nice pass from Huberdeau) to randomly slam Huberdeau. Which happens on the regular, though usually if he misses a pass or hits a post. The, it was edited to expand it to all long term veteran contracts, because somehow it would be less of an attack.

I’m just saying there’s a lot of bad contracts out there and that I think a lot of players are interchangeable with AHLers for the same overall impact (or better). Mangiapane is a good example, dude has been actually no better than say, a guy like Duehr if given the same opportunity and ice time.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m just saying there’s a lot of bad contracts out there and that I think a lot of players are interchangeable with AHLers for the same overall impact (or better). Mangiapane is a good example, dude has been actually no better than say, a guy like Duehr if given the same opportunity and ice time.

Of course there is no basis or supporting evidence for that opinion
It’s just nonsense

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Another lesson game for Wolf.

He had a good 45 minutes. Has to learn to lock it down in the final frame.

1st and 3rd shots were tipped - no chance on the 3rd one, and little chance on the 1st. The 2nd goal was an unbelievable pass, no chance there either.

What I saw was a guy who, despite giving up 3, shut the door to preserve the win. He played well. Sometimes pucks go in, no matter how well you play.