[Rumour] Lebrun: CGY & CAR talked about Lindholm trade that could involve Hamilton and Hanifin

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Bennett sucks he is a bust. At least Ferly hits the net.

Look at Ferlands stats before getting a consistent look with the top line..... below Bennett’s.

[The Cobra]

Just ask what other GM's (including the Flames) would pay Lindholm vs. what they would pay Ferland.

Many here are comfortable playing Lindh9olm $5.5M on a 6-year contract.

Who would want to pay that to Ferland?

Ferland gives good value for his contract. As soon as he gets expensive (i.e. UFA), I expect he'll be gone unless he signs for quite a bit less than what everyone would want to pay Lindholm.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, I mean remember when Iginla was going to go to another team and become a 50 goal scorer because he was playing with better centers? Good times as we regale in the reminiscences of those big goal scoring seasons!

Reality is that certain players excel in certain circumstances. Ferland is a great fit on that first line because he is a multi-dimensional player who brings an ability to score along with a physical edge that keeps the opposition honest. This is the dynamic on that line which allows Gaudreau and Monahan more room to do what they do. Lindholm, while a good player in his own right, does not provide those qualities. Lindholm is more like Bennett and would not provide that space making quality for Gaudreau and Monahan. Bennett was not a good fit on that line, so there is no guarantee that Lindholm would do much better. It is an unknown, but trends suggest the line does best with someone who can make room for that duo to generate scoring chances.

Remember when we held on to Iggy until he was 35 years old, I certainly wasn't one expecting him to get traded and put up 50g on another team... so who are you referring to?

You have no idea how Lindholm would fit because its never been done, comparing him to Bennett has to be the biggest shot in the dark you could make, its laughable. Nobody said they'd guarantee it, I did say that I'd BET that Lindholm would put up numbers at least EQUAL to Ferland, and I stick by that.

Ferland isn't the perfect compliment, he was given a long leash and showed in the first half of the season he could keep up. I wont deny the line was on fire, but when Ferland stopped being physical as you've alluded to he dried up completely and his point totals completely stopped. He wasn't drafted to be a #1 scoring RW, he was drafted as a solid guy who plays physical and can help any line up and down, and I think he can continue to do that.

Why does physicality have to be present in order to put up points? Johnny scored more points without Ferland than he did with, he's pretty good at making space for himself. Many of the top lines in the NHL this year did so without a big physical body, I fail to see how hypothetically inserting Lindholm on the 1st line would result in instant failure. They did just as well with Hudler who plays the exact opposite.

How can you be so certain of something that doesn't exist...

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I am intrigued by the idea of acquiring Lindhold and Hanifin, two young players, at the right price. I can think of two cases where BT overpaid for two players (Lazar, Shinkaruk) who have been unable to live up to their draft position so I hope this is a case where the players are being valued based on their NHL performance to date. Their draft position isn't that relevant anymore.

I sort of agree on the Lazar trade but trading your 13th/14th forward for an OK prospect is a gamble I take every time. It didn't work out with Shinkaruk but it's not like Granlund was a huge piece to give up.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I sort of agree on the Lazar trade but trading your 13th/14th forward for an OK prospect is a gamble I take every time. It didn't work out with Shinkaruk but it's not like Granlund was a huge piece to give up.

Agree, and not saying it was a big loss. And these are just two examples. But in both cases, Flames gave up more value than they received and so I wonder if too much weight was given to draft projections.

Not enough data from which to draw to a conclusion, but it is interesting when you hear that Lindholm and Hanafin are being looked at. Two high profile draft picks that have been good, but arguably not quite living up to expectations yet.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by wretched34

A Lindholm+Hanifin deal is almost worth Hamilton in my eyes, but I'd still have trouble pulling that trigger.
Hopefully Carolina can find another partner to move Hanifin too for a forward or picks, and then a package around Brodie could be made for Lindholm.

I do that trade in a heartbeat. I honestly don't think the D corps takes that big a hit overall if Dougie wasn't there. And Hanafin is a 30+ point 3rd pairing D man in Carolina. I think he makes up for over %50 of dougies production over the course of a season if this trade were to happen. Maybe even comes close to %75 if he's on a good 2nd pairing with good minutes. I think Hamonic would be the perfect guy for Hanafin to pair with.

As for the Ferland and Lindholm thing, if this trade goes down, we will see.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I do that trade in a heartbeat. I honestly don't think the D corps takes that big a hit overall if Dougie wasn't there. And Hanafin is a 30+ point 3rd pairing D man in Carolina. I think he makes up for over %50 of dougies production over the course of a season if this trade were to happen. Maybe even comes close to %75 if he's on a good 2nd pairing with good minutes. I think Hamonic would be the perfect guy for Hanafin to pair with.

As for the Ferland and Lindholm thing, if this trade goes down, we will see.

Losing arguably your best all around defenseman (Norris voting) is a big hit to any team.
Hanifin is good, and should only get better, but as you mention, he'd likely be best suited with Hamonic, as a 2nd pairing D-man.
Is Brodie better than Hamilton? Not in this lifetime, so while Hanifin is good, moving Dougie for him leaves a hole on the top pairing that will never be filled to the level Dougie filled it.
Is Lindholm worth the downgrade on Defense? That's where I struggle with pulling the trigger. I'd rather have an Elite top defensive pairing, than a great 2nd pairing and possibly adding 10-15 points in our middle 6 forward group.

It's close, and one of the better offers I've heard for Hamilton, if they took Brouwer as well, I'd do it.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

I speak the truth. Only on CP is Bennett worth Lindholm.

You make a common mistake, that of equating "truth" with "opinion". Further to that, you seem to fall into the trap that all opinions are equal. They're not. Allowed, but not equal.

[Ashasx]

More from Wills

Don’t trade Douglas @nitwitschool
Thinks Hamilton is going and should. “Sell high”, makes them a contender, etc. Thinks Brodie/Gio is your top pair again.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

More from Wills

Don’t trade Douglas @nitwitschool
Thinks Hamilton is going and should. “Sell high”, makes them a contender, etc. Thinks Brodie/Gio is your top pair again.

Oh ffs.. I hope not.

[Ashasx]

Wills routinely just has poor hockey takes.

[atb]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

More from Wills

Don’t trade Douglas @nitwitschool
Thinks Hamilton is going and should. “Sell high”, makes them a contender, etc. Thinks Brodie/Gio is your top pair again.

Have to wonder what is going on behind the scenes with Hamilton when trading a D-man who lead the league in goals d-men makes you more of a contender.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by atb

Have to wonder what is going on behind the scenes with Hamilton when trading a D-man who lead the league in goals d-men makes you more of a contender.

Can't it simply mean Hamilton is your best trading chip in acquiring a top 6 forward, and the team is more of a contender because they now more balanced?

Seriously, I think some people are reading way to much in the "behind the scenes with Hamilton". I honestly think if he's traded its a hockey trade reason, pure and simple.

[wretched34]

If the deal makes us a contender, and the smoke is billowing out of Carolina, I want the deal to look like:

Hamilton + Hamonic + Bennett + Brouwer + 2019 1st

Skinner + Hanifin + Lindholm + 2018 1st

Johnny-Money-Ferland
Skinner-Janko-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Foo

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Stone-Kulak/UFA

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by wretched34

If the deal makes us a contender, and the smoke is billowing out of Carolina, I want the deal to look like:

Hamilton + Hamonic + Bennett + Brouwer + 2019 1st

Skinner + Hanifin + Lindholm + 2018 1st

Johnny-Money-Ferland
Skinner-Janko-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Foo

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Stone-Kulak/UFA

Lmao that is a horrible trade for carolina

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by wretched34

If the deal makes us a contender, and the smoke is billowing out of Carolina, I want the deal to look like:

Hamilton + Hamonic + Bennett + Brouwer + 2019 1st

Skinner + Hanifin + Lindholm + 2018 1st

Johnny-Money-Ferland
Skinner-Janko-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Foo

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Stone-Kulak/UFA

Hate to say it but that is wretched!

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Lmao that is a horrible trade for carolina

Agreed, but it'd push the Flames closer to Contender.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Agreed, but it'd push the Flames closer to Contender.

Oh, well if that is the case I am sure they will do it just to help us out.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by wretched34

If the deal makes us a contender, and the smoke is billowing out of Carolina, I want the deal to look like:

Hamilton + Hamonic + Bennett + Brouwer + 2019 1st

Skinner + Hanifin + Lindholm + 2018 1st

Johnny-Money-Ferland
Skinner-Janko-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Foo

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Stone-Kulak/UFA

What would be Carolina's motivation to include their 2018 2OA in any trade involving the Canes trading desirable assets? To get Brouwer?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Why don't we just go for Fleury rather than Hanifin? Trade Brodie + Gillies for Fleury and Lindholm. Hanifin > Fleury, but that means we wouldn't have to give up Dougie.