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Old 11-16-2018, 09:29 PM   #81
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geez guys, I'm not into separation, I doubt it will ever happen.


I'm just laying out that its likely that if Alberta was to separate that it would be Sask and Alberta looking at some kind of union or trade agreement with the States.


However, I've been around for a while, and no government has been able to take care of Western Alienation, mainly because people in Eastern Canada pretty much think of the prairies with a great deal of unfounded contempt. no government will bother with dealing with Western Alienation because frankly under the current form, Alberta and Saskatchewan have very little to say in terms of who runs this country, that honor is left to Ontario and Quebec, that really needs to be addressed, but it never will be.


This is a different type of feel from the 70's and 80's where the mere mention of Ontario and the Federal Government was met with a lot of anger. I think that now its more of a sense of "we're going to get screwed over no matter what we do".


I expect its going to get worse if the Federal Liberals get swept out in Alberta and Saskatchewan in the next election, and Alberta and Saskatchewan go away from the Federal Climate Plan and the carbon taxes and take the fight to the courts.



And the talk about health care is legitimate, but aren't we all seeing that there's a possibility that Canada's health system in its current form is not going to be sustainable as the population ages.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:36 PM   #82
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Maybe a workable country would be Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, NWT, Yukon and Nunavut.

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Old 11-16-2018, 09:39 PM   #83
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That is ludacris
It seems kind of Wu Tang to me.

*ludicrous
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:42 PM   #84
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Even if the province continues to deliver health care, it's going to be Americanized.
There doesn't seem to be anything that could block Alberta from implementing a single-payer system identical to how AHS works. There's been a number of states who've tried but were hampered by their State Legislatures or rejected by plebiscites, but not by interference from the Federal Government.
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They don't say "I'm moving to Canada" for nothing.
How many have followed through? At best, it just means Canada is the backup plan. And the statistics I've seen show that there are more Canadians in America than Americans in Canada.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:48 PM   #85
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I once read a separatist movement blurb about California, Oregon, Washington State, Idaho, Montana, Alaska, NWT, BC, Saskatchewan and Alberta forming their own country.

It was interesting and surprisingly, made sense at the time I read it.

I'll see if I can dig it up...
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:15 PM   #86
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To wastedyouth and ice_cube, just curious what industries you work in, if any?

In my view, a lot of albertans don't fully comprehend how bad things are here because the NDP has racked up crazy debt to cushion the blow. There haven't been any public sector job cuts. And poverty calbire workers have gotten raises due to minimum wage increases. And construction workers, while worsen off, have been massively cushioned by civil works. And all that has supported the domestic service industry (restaurants, haircuts, bars, retail, etc).

IMO there is about to be a second downdraft for a lot of people. Bitumen prices are negative, so prepare for the continuous bleed of upstream oil and gas revenues to continue. Interest rates increases are killing new home construction. More importantly, when upc wins the election, they're going to cut spending and go after public sector workers - the province will see a second recession as they try to balance the budget due to the knock-on effects.

I don't think separation is the answer, but as someone whose lived half my life in Ontario and half in Alberta, and has worked in a variety of finance/economics roles in both provinces (including for the federal government), I can tell you that Alberta gets an incredibly raw deal out of federalism. I don't think alienation is felt when times are good...but during times like these (and those that may be to come), im curious as to how much #### people are willing to take until they become irrate at the situation.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:36 PM   #87
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I’m surprised these topics even come up on CP anymore. There’s the usual supporters on both sides. And they never actually go anywhere.

That includes me too.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:25 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by ricosuave View Post
I once read a separatist movement blurb about California, Oregon, Washington State, Idaho, Montana, Alaska, NWT, BC, Saskatchewan and Alberta forming their own country.

It was interesting and surprisingly, made sense at the time I read it.

I'll see if I can dig it up...
Cascadia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascad...dence_movement)
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:55 PM   #89
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A few other links:

http://cascadia-institute.org/images...ia-Map-big.png

https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/new...eet-1.23264708

Personally I've had my fill of Pacific Coasters and would just as soon develop egress to the North or Hudson Bay.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:52 AM   #90
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A few other links:

http://cascadia-institute.org/images...ia-Map-big.png

https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/new...eet-1.23264708

Personally I've had my fill of Pacific Coasters and would just as soon develop egress to the North or Hudson Bay.
It was based on Cascadia, but it went much further... Still looking. This was in the early 2000s though.
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Old 11-17-2018, 02:56 AM   #91
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Ah yes, never try to think about ways to better yourself because someone else has it worse!


Pretty much everybody else has it worse. You may not be a 1 percenter in your jurisdiction, but you are a 1 percenter.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:02 AM   #92
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We'd also have to cross borders anytime we wanted to go to the Grey Eagle for a concert. Getting out of that parking lot was already bad enough.


The checkpoint on the Divide chair would take us back to 80s lengths of time to get up Lookout.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:06 AM   #93
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If you have a problem with your taxes under the NDP, wait until we have to pay for our own military.



Say we separate. Do we get to stay in NATO? What stops the United States from annexing us and taking our oil? Do we develop a nuclear program?



I'm not learning a new national anthem.


No need.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S3PonfLXKhc
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:44 AM   #94
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If you have a problem with your taxes under the NDP, wait until we have to pay for our own military.
Even in 2017, the Federal Government collected nearly $22 billion more in revenue from Alberta than it spent in Alberta.

https://goo.gl/bXQikG

With that tax room, Alberta could probably buy a better military from scratch than what Canada has now.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:20 AM   #95
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We can go ahead and separate. We have more access to tidewater under international rules than we do under Canadian ones. If we join the US then where do i sign?

Oh and the only reason Macron doesn’t like nationalism is because his country sucks.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:32 AM   #96
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What would be so great about an independent Alberta? Do we have some unique culture that binds us together so strongly and proudly that it sets us apart from the rest of Canada? Or is it just about the money as usual?
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:22 AM   #97
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Frankly the only answer is to genetically create a slave race that only knows how to pedal stationary bikes 24 hours a day at a high rate of speed.
The Cycling thread might be a good place to start searching.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:39 AM   #98
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What would be so great about an independent Alberta? Do we have some unique culture that binds us together so strongly and proudly that it sets us apart from the rest of Canada? Or is it just about the money as usual?

Clearly we do, I mean its a source of disdain in Eastern Canada. We're considered different then the rest of Canada.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:50 AM   #99
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I think the quality of life impacts from TMX will be felt in 5-10 years once our government debt balloons to a point where our annual budget has significant interest payments as a line item. Services are going to have to be cut.

I don’t necessarily feel alienated anymore than we always have been but I do hold resentment towards BC specifically. This was a project that was federally endorsed and widely broadcast as in the best interest of the nation and has been polled as being supported by the majority of the Canadians and even British Columbians and yet we still can’t get constructed started? It makes no sense. We need to have stronger bolder leadership that is willing to take action. Enough pandering and talking, what BC has done is unconstitutional and I’m not sure if Alberta did something like BC is doing that it would be tolerated? So what we have here is a breakdown of democracy and a symbol of how our system doesn’t work as a country. The fact that nothing has really been done about it is what is so disgusting. And yeah that’s sort of an unfair statement since they bought the pipeline but that was May...... like this should be something where we are hearing developments about what they’re trying to do everyday and instead it’s crickets and more consultation which we know won’t solve anything.

I’ve posted ad nausem on this topic. Alberta can do more and so can the Feds. They can market to the ignorant masses better with better information they can withhold funding to BC, they can kick up other pipeline projects. There’s lots of things they can do but right now they’re more interested in the power and politics not supporting Canadians on a project that is in the national interest and has national support.

It’s pretty frustrating. Why doesn’t Alberta go really really strong into supporting and propping up transitional energy industry research, businesses or ideas? Alberta should continue to be an energy leading province and that includes other sectors of the energy industry aside from oil and gas. You can put a pile of subsidies or money into these industries, and I’m not sure why that isn’t being done. Solar, wind, hydro, etc. Is there no more efficiencies or cheaper ways to make all these technologies? Is there no more to be done in battery technology or geothermal or whatever?

Anyway focusing our efforts on transitional industries we can rally around economically is probably a better plan than trying to separate and achieve essentially nothing.

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Old 11-17-2018, 10:32 AM   #100
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Take over BC, then separate both provinces. Then you're no longer landlocked.

The hippies won't put up much of a fight.
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