Alberta alienation and independence

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

National identity is dumb.

Provincial identity is even dumber.

It's worked wonders for Quebec.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why stop there? I don't trust the Northern Albertans either.

City-States.

You trust the suburbs?

[Johnny Makarov]

I vote yes! I want a $100 bill with Jason Kenney's face on it!

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I vote yes! I want a $100 bill with Jason Kenney's face on it!

I'll support this if all UCP party members get drafted into Alberta's new military and give service to their country!

[Shin Pad]

I feel alienated,however, I don't see any viable options. Separating really isn't the answer - as others have mentioned, we are landlocked, so it would be even harder to get our oil to tide water. Joining the US? What would happen to our health care, for example? Even if we managed to keep it, I could see a flood of Americans moving to Alberta to get health care - the system would be overwhelmed and would fail. Even if it isn't a great solution, staying within Confederation is still our best option.

[TheIronMaiden]

Western Alienation is a genuine artifact, especially historically, I would say that it is less material now than it was even 30 years ago, let alone its hay day in the 1920s. All the same, a healthy brand of regionalism is important for any community in order to protect their needs.

Still, I am 100% in support of senate reform. The fact B.C and A.B only have 6 seats a piece in the senate as apposed to the 10 of N.B and N.S have, let alone Ontario and Quebec having 24 each, is strong evidence that the Federal Power of Canada does not equally represent every region.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

I feel alienated,however, I don't see any viable options. Separating really isn't the answer - as others have mentioned, we are landlocked, so it would be even harder to get our oil to tide water. Joining the US? What would happen to our health care, for example? Even if we managed to keep it, I could see a flood of Americans moving to Alberta to get health care - the system would be overwhelmed and would fail. Even if it isn't a great solution, staying within Confederation is still our best option.

Separation is not a solution, it is the cause of another problem. All the same, strong regional representation politically, and culturally is important.

[woob]

Unfortunately version one of the Alberta politics thread doesn't exist any more, otherwise I'd link to my post there which I believe essentially said any discussion of Alberta separation is asinine. I think my post had a little more meat to it, but this will do.

[puckedoff]

I don't think separation would make it harder to get pipelines. If Alberta separated, we would have jurisdicition over BC shipping goods through our province to the rest of the country. It would get ugly for a while, but they would let us build a pipeline through BC in order to access the rest of canada without going around through NWT.

Plus, we would have money from not having to pay federal taxes / transfer payments.... I think we should at least float the idea to see if anyone in Ottawa cares/notices.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'll support this if all UCP party members get drafted into Alberta's new military and give service to their country!

Nah, within a couple of days of separating and joining the US, we'd have a marine division, army division, and a air wing of fighters

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Problem with joining the USA is that the moment we became US citizens a good chunk of people would move to southern states. I know I would. If it ever got to the point of a large movement I would probably support it. I don't see a bright future for Canada as a whole.

Been there, done that.... The southern states are garbage. Most of the residents there even think so. You couldn't pay me enough to move back to one of those third world #### holes.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Nah, within a couple of days of separating and joining the US, we'd have a marine division, army division, and a air wing of fighters

Even more reason to leave.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I don't think separation would make it harder to get pipelines. If Alberta separated, we would have jurisdicition over BC shipping goods through our province to the rest of the country. It would get ugly for a while, but they would let us build a pipeline through BC in order to access the rest of canada without going around through NWT.

Plus, we would have money from not having to pay federal taxes / transfer payments.... I think we should at least float the idea to see if anyone in Ottawa cares/notices.

Yeah, the leverage of "sorry, but everything CP and CN carry through Alberta pays a tariff now" would probably be enough to get a pipeline through.

I actually think even a credible threat of separation probably gets us a better deal. It's not like we're getting huge benefits from confederation now. We get to pay more than our share of the bill though, so that's nice...

[temple5]

Yes, having 8 provinces actively fighting against us does not help but neither does independence - we would be Kuwait without a port.

Becoming the winter version of Puerto Rico.... thats an option.

[MoneyGuy]

Our Albertan hockey and Olympic teams would suck.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by LWcrowfoot

You trust the suburbs?

I will lead the Ward 6 War for Independence. We will adorn our gates with the heads of our inner city latte sipping enemies.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I will lead the Ward 6 War for Independence. We will adorn our gates with the heads of our inner city latte sipping enemies.

Inner City wards are very adept at guerilla warfare, able to get around quickly on our fixies and folding Brompton bikes. Camouflage is an issue as the cans of PBR we clip to our belts would stick out quite a bit.

[GullFoss]

I don't really see the arguments as cultural...more economic.

1) no equalization payments

2) less transfers to other provinces from progressive taxation transfers. People in Alberta make more money and a higher percentage work. Lots of your federal taxes end up being a second equalization program

3) more good paying government jobs would reduce the cyclicality of our economy and reduce unemployment. Right now Alberta has the lowest proportion of government jobs per capita in the country

4) more domestic industries would lead a more diverse economy and more job creation. Sectors like banking and Telecom and groceries are basically a further subsidy of Ontario and Quebec by Alberta because of where they are headquarters. If we had our own country, we have more job creation for our own companies in these sectors.

[DiracSpike]

If Alberta had a port I'd vote to be gone in a second.

As it stands I don't feel any pride in being Canadian anymore. This country doesn't function, there's no coherent national identity. That's no more evident in the large amount of "Canadians" taking glee in Alberta's pain right now. We're a loose conglomeration of territories that basically came together by acciddent

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Just wanted to get an idea of your thoughts on Alberta alienation and independence.

Are you frustrated with the federal ineptitude of files important to Alberta?

Would you vote a provincial party that ramps up the rhetoric on Alberta Independence through and after the election next year?

Would you be in favor of holding a peblicite on Alberta separation?

Do you feel aggrieved as an Albertan?

What would it take for this topic to become top of mind for you?

Lol?