Why does every goalie look good against the flames?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

This thread brings a terribly boring narrative. How did Markstrom look? Or Crawford? Varlamov? Lundquist? Rask?

So 5 out of 19 goaltenders haven't looked great against them?

[bubbsy]

I don't think it's the goalies. Flames just don't have many players with the nhl level scoring ability at this moment in time.

Outside the top line and tkatchuk, nobody is good at scoring (some aren't yet we hope, some aren't anymore, and some just aren't ever going to be).

Bennett, Jankowski, neal, ryan, czarnik, dube, and to a lesser extent Backlund and Frolik just aren't high % finishers. That's about 3/4s of the forward group. Another year with zero scoring and actual offensive productivity depth again

But please tell me more about their corsi, Fenwick, advanced stats and how we can expect some sort of regression to some random mean... I've been waiting for at least a season or two.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So 5 out of 19 goaltenders haven't looked great against them?

A bunch of games have also been average goaltending, a bunch has been good or great goaltending. It's similar to what every other team goes through. Or did everyone on the Kings just shoot in the chest on Rittich because he shut them out? Or did Nashville grip their sticks absurdly hard against Smith? It's just that the narrative is used by every single fan base, it's found in PGTs everywhere, and I guess everyone are just as right, or as wrong.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

A bunch of games have also been average goaltending, a bunch has been good or great goaltending. It's similar to what every other team goes through. Or did everyone on the Kings just shoot in the chest on Rittich because he shut them out? Or did Nashville grip their sticks absurdly hard against Smith? It's just that the narrative is used by every single fan base, it's found in PGTs everywhere, and I guess everyone are just as right, or as wrong.

The Kings quite frankly were not very good Saturday night and played a 90's version of NHL hockey. Smith may have only let in one or two goals if he played that night. I believe Bingo has dug up stats to show the Flames are indeed poor at converting scoring chances relative the rest of the league. Fans of other teams may complain about it the same but the Flames fans complaints are more legit when it comes to wasting scoring opportunities.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Kings quite frankly were not very good Saturday night and played a 90's version of NHL hockey. Smith may have only let in one or two goals if he played that night. I believe Bingo has dug up stats to show the Flames are indeed poor at converting scoring chances relative the rest of the league. Fans of other teams may complain about it the same but the Flames fans complaints are more legit when it comes to wasting scoring opportunities.

I think Bingo's stats were from last year, no? That said, Ihave no clue what they look like this year. I sometimes think we are jaded becaise we rarely watch complete games of other teams (other than those who follow another team like a couple guys here).

I do know if you look at other message boards you get similar complaints about not finishing, making other goalies (esp backups) look good, rookies scoring, early goals, fourth lines....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really? I dont believe you and even if you're telling the truth I think you're incorrect.

Sorry man, when your goalie lets in muffins from everywhere then everyone holds their sticks tighter and the stress becomes palpable.

Because you get the feeling that you cant allow any shots against because anything could go in. Theres no faith in your goaltender.

Nobody is taking risks because the most innocuous and innocent of chances against could be the one that makes you lose.

Having no faith in your goaltender is like an infectious disease. It ruins morale, kills swagger and eliminates creativity. You only always want to make the safe play. No taking risks because they might wind up in the back of your net.

Its not fair to compare Smith to Kipper, but Kipper instilled confidence in his team. Sure, he'd let in a bad goal from time to time, but he also made saves that he had no business making. His confidence and coolness infected the team.

Smith's lack thereof and panicky demeanor is doing the same but in a negative sense.

We need a goalie that can make routine 'NHL Goaltender' saves. Right now that seems like Rittich.

It seems proven that it isnt Smith, and if it eventually proves not to be Rittich then Treliving has to roll the dice and find someone else, but we cannot continue with sub .900 goaltending.

The real concern for me is that Treliving has brought in some goaltenders with pedigree in the past few years and they have all crumbled monumentally. Is that a fault of Treliving's ability to gauge talent or is something else going on? We've had a cavalcade of otherwise competent goaltenders absolutely crap the bed on us and its becoming time for fingers to be pointed. One way or another.

I'm not arguing in any fashion that Smith is good. Or that he's cost wins. I just don't think that leads to a conclusion that the Flames aren't scoring because of him. Heck, the Flames had trouble scoring with Kipper in net playing great.

I don't believe in the armchair psychology that's going on. Are you really suggesting Backlund whiffed on that shot in San Jose because of nerves created by Smith played with his head in that split second? Or isn't it more logical that any pressure like that is caused by his own play? Or even moreso pressure Bennett puts on himself? Because Bennett wasn't scoring when Smith played well, when Elliott was playing well, etc.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Bingo's stats were from last year, no? That said, Ihave no clue what they look like this year. I sometimes think we are jaded becaise we rarely watch complete games of other teams (other than those who follow another team like a couple guys here).

I do know if you look at other message boards you get similar complaints about not finishing, making other goalies (esp backups) look good, rookies scoring, early goals, fourth lines....

Yes and I believe last season they were on an island when it came to fattening up opposing goaltender stats with no other teams being close. He's mentioned that it's happening again this season with guys like Backlund, Bennett, Jankowski, etc. They did have a run early in the season when they were scoing a lot of goals but it's kind of dried up lately and the team has looked a lot like last season.

[dammage79]

Because when you're not getting adequate goaltending everything else looks that much better. I don't think the Flames make other goalies look great, just that every goalie looks better than what we have.

It is a bit odd though, when the Flames looked the most dominant and awe inspiring it doesnt matter who is in the oppositions net, the pucks going in. But that level of play has tapered off in the past couple of weeks.

The top line has reverted back to being too cute and making 4 passes too many. Backlunds struggles are really allowing the opposing team to focus more on Chuckles.

[direwolf]

This team was top 5 in scoring over the first 15 games. I have no doubt the offence will come around and pucks will find the back of the net again. Some guys definitely seem to be gripping their sticks a bit right now (Backlund, Neal, and Bennett especially). But I'm still confident they'll work themselves out of it. Every team goes through these dry spells once in a while. It just sucks that the Flames happen to be going through theirs while getting awful goaltending from Smith. If Rittich had started all of the last 4 games, I'd bet we'd be at least 5 or 6 points higher in the standings and probably leading the division.

[dino7c]

Flames have more high danger chances in almost every game...not sure what some of you are watching.

Difference is an average NHL goaltender makes saves. Every single turnover isn't a goal against (imagine that)

[dino7c]

Backlund has been "gripping his stick" his entire career...and Bennett has since his rookie year

they are what they are

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames have more high danger chances in almost every game...not sure what some of you are watching.

Difference is an average NHL goaltender makes saves. Every single turnover isn't a goal against (imagine that)

That's kinda what I meant about not watching other teams whole games. People see highlights and think chances are always buried. Bennett and Backlund are at around the same shooting percentage as Teravainen, and higher than Rakell, Barkov, Evander Kane, Eichel, Johansen, Barzal, Ehlers, Hall, etc.

[868904]

So what exactly happens in practice?

You have a goalie who can't stop anything and a bunch of players who can't score.

Does anyone get any confidence in practice?

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Kings quite frankly were not very good Saturday night and played a 90's version of NHL hockey. Smith may have only let in one or two goals if he played that night. I believe Bingo has dug up stats to show the Flames are indeed poor at converting scoring chances relative the rest of the league. Fans of other teams may complain about it the same but the Flames fans complaints are more legit when it comes to wasting scoring opportunities.

I know what you are saying, and I have the exact same feelings at times, but I just can't find myself agreeing with you on a factual basis. I think we've been scoring plenty, and that we're now in a bit of a funk that we will soon get out of. So, agree to disagree I suppose.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by 868904

So what exactly happens in practice?

You have a goalie who can't stop anything and a bunch of players who can't score.

Does anyone get any confidence in practice?

According to Sigalet, Smith is setting the world on fire in practice, so I suppose he is shattering the confidence of his teammates both in practice and in games in two entirely different ways.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

According to Sigalet, Smith is setting the world on fire in practice, so I suppose he is shattering the confidence of his teammates both in practice and in games in two entirely different ways.

In practice, Smith is up against the Flames inaccurate shooters so he looks good. Come game time, he is up against NHL shooters that are more accurate so he has difficulty stopping pucks.

[Brick]

In summary, average NHL goalies stop a lot of Flames below average nhl shots.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

So what exactly happens in practice?

You have a goalie who can't stop anything and a bunch of players who can't score.

Does anyone get any confidence in practice?

Practice is usually about systems, not one on one scoring per se. Their drills are typically breakouts, power play designs (but on passing, not the finish), and the like. Scrimmages are rare. So players don't usually shoot to score in practice and goalies don't try extra hard to make difficult saves.

[jlh2640]

Man it is more on the Flames I think, wasting chances and no finish. Year after year

[bax]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

A bunch of games have also been average goaltending, a bunch has been good or great goaltending. It's similar to what every other team goes through. Or did everyone on the Kings just shoot in the chest on Rittich because he shut them out? Or did Nashville grip their sticks absurdly hard against Smith? It's just that the narrative is used by every single fan base, it's found in PGTs everywhere, and I guess everyone are just as right, or as wrong.

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