2013 Olympic Plaza Random Murder

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 81MC

If someone I loved was randomly murdered for nothing and this was the judgement, I suspect both the perpetrator and the judge would have some bad days.

Yeah, no they wouldn't.

[taco.vidal]

Ironic in an Alanis Morrissette kind of way that the victim's last name is Gladue and his killer is native.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Ironic in an Alanis Morrissette kind of way that the victim's last name is Gladue and his killer is native.

I don't get it?

[tvp2003]

So what happens to this fella when he gets out in two years? He's known to be someone unable to control his actions due to alcohol and his upbringing. Simply wait for the next violent act/innocent victim? Not suggesting increased jail time would enhance his liklihood of rehabilitation, but unless he gets some treatment (voluntarily or otherwise) it seems like another Natalie Pasqua situation (as Firebot referenced above)...

[Weitz]

I may be missing something.. but this guy gets 2 years and probation. The guy who didn't even kill the guy who got shot 8 times while being robbed gets 10 years before possibility of parole?!?

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Will probably be dead of a fentanyl overdose within a year, so no worries.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I've been banned from CP for longer than this guy's murder sentence. That's effed up.

[OMG!WTF!]

I'm pretty sure my history of abuse and terrible upbringing rivals this guy. I sincerely wonder if I get a free pass. Like do I have a murder or two in the bag? Too white maybe? Seems too good to be true.

[MBates]

If you folks want to debate this topic with any credibility, you should adhere to the same standards of truth and accuracy that are expected when speaking about hockey prospects.

This is not a murder sentence. It is a manslaughter sentence. This is not a murder. Nothing anyone says based on a few lines of media reporting (as opposed to the full evidence called in the courtroom) will change that fact.

And before I get criticized because as a defence lawyer I would be expected to defend the so-called joke system I am involved in, I pause to point out that 10 non-lawyer regular layperson members of the community UNANIMOUSLY agreed that this was not a murder but was instead a manslaughter (apparently accepting that the accused's level of intoxication meant they had a reasonable doubt that he formed the intent to commit murder).

Aboriginal sentencing 'Gladue' factors are not a 'free pass' but are federally mandated BY PARLIAMENT (not the judiciary or the lawyers) to be considered in sentencing. Having a generational life-altering cycle of abject poverty and unimaginable abuse as your upbringing (imposed on you by the same government now holding you accountable for behaving badly) is not the same as having a 'bad childhood.'

The judge didn't find 2 years and probation was a fit penalty. He found 10 years was a fit penalty, to be reduced by 2 years to account for the Gladue sentencing factors. Of the 8 years remaining, the pre-sentence custody reduced it to the sentence ordered.

Pre-sentence custody is not remotely the same as post-sentence custody. There are essentially no employment or education opportunities. No treatment or rehabilitative programs. Remand inmates routinely live 3 grown men in a cell designed for 1 - for 23 to 23.5 hours per day.

Alberta remand centres do not comply with the UN Treaty that Canada has signed regarding the standard minimum rules for the treatment of prisoners (known as the Mandela rules).

If anything is a joke it is that we treat people inhumanely in a way we would never stand for if we saw it happening in another country...but in ours...we just look the other way.

What happened in this case before arrest is beyond tragic. What happened in court was an orderly application of the rule of law. If you are not satisfied with that, your outrage should properly be directed to elected Members of Parliament and not the justice system that is enacting the will of those elected officials.

Oh, and 'near murder' is a sentencing term in prior case law dealing with manslaughter sentences. The judge describing this as a 'near murder' was doing his job, applying the binding legal precedents that dictate how he is supposed to rule.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abca/do...95abca196.html

There are many valid areas for criticism and debate in the criminal justice system. It would really be great if those could be addressed and arguments based on false descriptions of cases and the system could be left behind.

[Flabbibulin]

Do i have this correct- there have been two Robyn Gladue's murdered in Alberta in the past few years, and in the both cases, the offender's light sentencing was based by the recommendations of the 'Gladue' report??? Very ironic indeed.

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjo...ing-sister/amp

Greckol noted McLernon has depression and Asperger’s syndrome — a development disorder similar in some ways to autism — and cited a court-ordered Gladue report that delved into McLernon’s aboriginal background, calling it “tragically exemplary” of multi-generational abuse.

The judge also noted that victim Robyn Gladue’s three children and her husband, James Arcand — who wrote in a victim impact statement about the loss of the “love of his life” — were “profoundly affected” by the death.

[Resolute 14]

FWIW, I think this might actually be an above average sentence for manslaughter when a firearm is not involved.

The more important question to me is how incompetent was that Crown prosecutor that they couldn't prove second degree murder?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by MBates

Aboriginal sentencing 'Gladue' factors are not a 'free pass' but are federally mandated BY PARLIAMENT (not the judiciary or the lawyers) to be considered in sentencing. Having a generational life-altering cycle of abject poverty and unimaginable abuse as your upbringing (imposed on you by the same government now holding you accountable for behaving badly) is not the same as having a 'bad childhood'.

It sounds like you're just defending the lawyers, judges and jury here from the typical criticism that judges should be held accountable for their lenient sentences etc. I don't think that's what most people are upset about. And by exact definition in your own paragraph, aboriginal sentencing guidelines is exactly a free pass. Is it better to offer it up as a federally mandated PARLIAMENTARY free pass? Rather than a judge or jury being too lenient? Either way, most opinions, educated or not will suggest knocking two years off an already ill conceived sentence is offensive.

Psychologically how is an abused aboriginal criminal different from a white guy with a 'bad childhood'? Are we adjusting sentencing because of the mountains of evidence showing abuse creates criminal patterns of behavior and thought? Or is it apart from that and because in this case "we" are the abusers?

In north America this guy gets anywhere from death to life without parole to a few years depending on jurisdiction. I'm not sure ours is this most sound judgment out there.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by MBates

This is not a murder sentence. It is a manslaughter sentence. This is not a murder. Nothing anyone says based on a few lines of media reporting (as opposed to the full evidence called in the courtroom) will change that fact.

And before I get criticized because as a defence lawyer I would be expected to defend the so-called joke system I am involved in, I pause to point out that 10 non-lawyer regular layperson members of the community UNANIMOUSLY agreed that this was not a murder but was instead a manslaughter (apparently accepting that the accused's level of intoxication meant they had a reasonable doubt that he formed the intent to commit murder).

I think you are confusing people saying he's a murderer because he took another human life and them saying he's a murderer using legal jargon. I don't think anyone here really cares what our legal system calls it, it doesn't make it any less murder. You can talk all day about how we are wrong because the legal definition is the only one that matters but it doesn't make our moral judgements about this situation any less genuine. This guy murdered someone. The legal system can call it an accelerated act of life denial or any other legal term or euphemism that they want, he still murdered someone.

Think about it. How ridiculous would it sound if we described all acts by their legal term instead of the actual real world action? Oh no, that guy didn't kill that family when he was driving drunk, he involuntary manslaughtered them. I didn't run over that kid in the crosswalk while I was on my cell phone! I driving without due care and attentioned her!

[OMG!WTF!]

I see there being three levels of leniency here. He was hammered. He's aboriginal. He had an abusive childhood. I might agree with one of those as a mitigating factor in sentencing. I disagree with any of them affecting his charge.

[northcrunk]

Good old Canadian race based sentencing strikes again. Canada's two-tiered justice system at work.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, no they wouldn't.

What?!?! You mean all my black magic and sorcery classes have been in vain?
But seriously, I do not condone or support violence towards any civil member of society (exceptions maybe made for people who slash others throats), and was simply using meaningless rhetoric to convey my displeasure with the sentencing. But I would curse the hell out of their names.

In my uneducated, usually ignorant opinion, sentencing for violent crimes seems to be awfully lenient. Anyone remember the beating death of Garcia by two 'people' in the beltline 2012? Unprovoked, random and vicious, after overturning a 2nd degree conviction the final plea with manslaughter for 6.5 years. If ####kcking someone to death, or cutting their throats and stabbing them afterwards, isn't "murder" than I don't know is.

[phil98z24]

Originally Posted by 81MC

What?!?! You mean all my black magic and sorcery classes have been in vain?
But seriously, I do not condone or support violence towards any civil member of society (exceptions maybe made for people who slash others throats), and was simply using meaningless rhetoric to convey my displeasure with the sentencing. But I would curse the hell out of their names.

In my uneducated, usually ignorant opinion, sentencing for violent crimes seems to be awfully lenient. Anyone remember the beating death of Garcia by two 'people' in the beltline 2012? Unprovoked, random and vicious, after overturning a 2nd degree conviction the final plea with manslaughter for 6.5 years. If ####kcking someone to death, or cutting their throats and stabbing them afterwards, isn't "murder" than I don't know is.

You don't condone or support violence towards any civil member of our society? It's likely not lost on you the heinous crimes and incredible violence the 'motorcycle club' who inspires your very username has inflicted on numerous civil members of society, including a young boy in Quebec who had no part of that BS. It's awfully cute of you to speak out about the injustice of it all, but when you choose a username like yours it makes me wonder if you actually believe anything you're saying. 🙄

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think you are confusing people saying he's a murderer because he took another human life and them saying he's a murderer using legal jargon. I don't think anyone here really cares what our legal system calls it, it doesn't make it any less murder. You can talk all day about how we are wrong because the legal definition is the only one that matters but it doesn't make our moral judgements about this situation any less genuine. This guy murdered someone. The legal system can call it an accelerated act of life denial or any other legal term or euphemism that they want, he still murdered someone.

Think about it. How ridiculous would it sound if we described all acts by their legal term instead of the actual real world action? Oh no, that guy didn't kill that family when he was driving drunk, he involuntary manslaughtered them. I didn't run over that kid in the crosswalk while I was on my cell phone! I driving without due care and attentioned her!

It would probably get people to want change in the justice system. Describing in legal terms what happened makes it very clear where the issue lies. It isn't a sentencing problem. What the state defines as mirder isn't broad enough. So saying a person driving with out due care and attentioned her and didn't go to jail sounds like it makes sense. So the problem is the criminal offenders charged.

This case shows that it isn't that sentencing is to lenient, the requirements for crimes with higher sentences are too high.

There really should be a life in prison charge without requiring to prove intent with perhaps parole eligability being determined by intent.

[Ducay]

Thnx OP - I've let my lawyer know that if I am arrested to remind the judge that I identify as Aboriginal.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Thnx OP - I've let my lawyer know that if I am arrested to remind the judge that I identify as Aboriginal.

Edgy stuff right here.