2019 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 81 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Resolute 14 · 09-06-2019, 10:15 AM

That's just trying to make excuses for an awful trade. Biagini may be a dime a dozen reliever, but we need one of those more than we need a dime a dozen minor league calibre outfielder. Throwing away two other bodies in the process is just bad asset management.

Roof-Daddy · 09-06-2019, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That's just trying to make excuses for an awful trade. Biagini may be a dime a dozen reliever, but we need one of those more than we need a dime a dozen minor league calibre outfielder. Throwing away two other bodies in the process is just bad asset management.

None of them were assets, that's the point.

The Jays picked up two relievers near the end of training camp off the scrap heap that had better years than Biagini, and that happens literally every year. The Jays do not need Biagini, he is so easily replaceable it's not even funny.

What they need to do is scour the earth for MLB outfielders that are about to break into MLB but have no opportunity to with their current organizations. If Fisher can't figure it out then they'll move onto another guy until they find a guy that will stick and fit in with the timeline of the core.

flamingred89 · 09-06-2019, 10:46 AM

My problem with Fisher so far are some of the complete whiffs he’s made in the field. It’s not bad route running, or reads, it’s that he seems like he can’t catch the ball. Which is scary for a big leaguer. Maybe he needs to borrow a pair of Jansens glasses.

flames_fan_down_under · 09-06-2019, 11:03 AM

Of course Fisher has been disappointing, and Atkins and Co.'s determination to acquire so many of these Fisher-ish type players is honestly just weird. McKinney, Fisher, Grichuk, Hernandez and Drury are all the same player; they strike out too much, they rotate through playing their various outfield positions not very well, they certainly can't hit, their OPS+ is about 70-95 (below league average), and since Eric Sogard has hit 13 home runs this year I can't give much credit to Grichuk or Hernandez for hitting 20+. Luckily for the Jays at this moment of being bad on purpose they have the luxury of being able to fail over and over trying to find a serviceable group of outfielders, their execution is certainly lacking right now as the players they have chosen to give these opportunities to are very bad, but still they don't have anything to lose really.

It's true the Joe Biagini's of the world are almost everywhere, the Jays traded away a bunch of them recently. Hudson, Phelps, Seunghwan Oh, Joe Smith, Dominic Leone. All fairly serviceable middle relief guys. I get it that we gave them 3 players and they gave us 1 in the Sanchez deal, and people don't like that, and I can sympathize with that, I just think that Aaron Sanchez had almost zero value and now they Astros are paying for shoulder surgery, which is never good. The trade also doesn't look good to many because they think somehow Sanchez will rediscover his 2016 form, I really really really doubt that, it also doesn't help that Fisher looks to be completely terrible (just like Sanchez!), but I am not going to lose sleep over Aaron Sanchez or Joe Biagini.

KelVarnsen · 09-06-2019, 11:46 AM

They gave up 3 nothings for 1 nothing. They could have at least got another nothing from the Astros.

flames_fan_down_under · 09-06-2019, 12:22 PM

They did, however, get two serious somethings for one Stroman and two sort of somethings for one Sogard. So not awful asset management.

cross16 · 09-06-2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Fisher's acquisition price was pretty much nothing lol.

Sanchez is terrible the rare moments he's healthy, Biagini is a dime a dozen reliever and Stevenson is a low A lottery ticket with zero power.

I also don't agree it was nothing. While I agree it wasn't high i still think both Biagini and Stevenson were both assets that the Jays could keep or turn into other assets.

to trade that for a platoon player the likes of which you can probably get for free in the off-season, or just promoted Alford and given him some playing time, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Like I said it's not the end of the world and far from calling it bad asset management, it just remains a puzzling move for me. The only way it makes sense is if Fischer can be an everyday guy and I don't see any indication that's the case.

Not a tragedy by any means just one I find disappointing. Partly due to Atkins talking him up though too.

SuperMatt18 · 09-06-2019, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Of course Fisher has been disappointing, and Atkins and Co.'s determination to acquire so many of these Fisher-ish type players is honestly just weird. McKinney, Fisher, Grichuk, Hernandez and Drury are all the same player; they strike out too much, they rotate through playing their various outfield positions not very well, they certainly can't hit, their OPS+ is about 70-95 (below league average), and since Eric Sogard has hit 13 home runs this year I can't give much credit to Grichuk or Hernandez for hitting 20+.

Yeah think the goal is that one of those guys becomes better than they had shown prior to that.

Try to find another Jose Bautista or Edwin Encarnacion type for this organization. There are guys like that that seem to pop up every year, guys that seemed like they were just good AAA players at 25 years old then suddenly are good everyday MLBers.

For the Jays taking some of these risks makes sense since they didn't really have a prospect pool ready to jump right in at these positions, and wanted to move out some older guys on the roster who wouldn't be in the right age range to fit into the re-build.

So they brought in these guys to bridge that gap to the young guys still the development in the minors right now. Guys that had shown some potential, and were still young enough to maybe contribute with the team long term.

Really I kind of get why they would have brought in some of these guys when they did - here was their age and career performance before being a Blue Jay.

Fisher: 25 years old, 112 GP, 0.3 WAR (.289/.370/.520, .899 OPS in AAA)
Mckinney: 24 years old (No MLB experience) (.261/.329/.505, .834 OPS in AAA)
Grichuk: 26 years old, 404 GP, 7.2 WAR (.262/.311/.517, .828 OPS in AAA)
Hernandez: 24 years old, 42 GP, 0.3 WAR (.275/.348/.496, .844 OPS in AAA)
Drury: 25 years old, 307 GP, 1.0 WAR (.308/.386/.442, .828 OPS in AAA)

So brought in a bunch of guys that were .820 or better for OPS in AAA to see if they could start to show that same level of performance in the MLB.

Sadly the seemed to have let go of one guy that did figure it out in Gio Urshela but he actually had worse MLB and AAA stats than all the guys I listed above, so really it's tough to figure out who will suddenly pop in the MLB some times.

flamingred89 · 09-06-2019, 05:18 PM

Man. I thought Grichuk had a chance for an inside the park Homer on that triple.

flamingred89 · 09-06-2019, 06:21 PM

Sigh. There is nothing worse than watching a Jays game at the Trop. I knew better, I really did, but masochism is a fickle beast.

Samonadreau · 09-07-2019, 07:31 PM

3-15 now in the last 18, back to flirting with a sub 60 win season which is where some predicted at the beginning of the season but as of a month looked like a lock for 70. Hopefully they put in some work this offseason to sure up the roster. Everybody not named Bo, Vlad Jr., Reese and Danny need to have a lot more competition coming into camp next year.

flames_fan_down_under · 09-08-2019, 12:03 AM

Anthony Kay was impressive for the Jays today. 5.2 IP with 8 Ks and only 4 hits and 2 runs allowed. Something to build off of for sure.

Roof-Daddy · 09-08-2019, 07:08 AM

^^^Stroman got rocked in his start yesterday as well. He only has one win in seven starts since the trade and is sporting a 5.05 ERA.

KootenayFlamesFan · 09-08-2019, 12:39 PM

Hard to watch the team play when you see plays like Teoscar totally misplaying a fly ball. That's just basic baseball. I don't think Charlie was impressed at all.

Roof-Daddy · 09-08-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Hard to watch the team play when you see plays like Teoscar totally misplaying a fly ball. That's just basic baseball. I don't think Charlie was impressed at all.

Yeah, very discouraging for sure.

Grichuk looked like he was coming to life, totally went back in the tank.
Drury looked like he was coming to life, totally went back in the tank.
Hernandez has cooled off both offensively and defensively.

Fisher has not impressed at the plate or in the field.
Davis doesn't do much for me either personally but they keep playing him while Alford sits on the bench, but I wouldn't be surprised if Alford would suck even if he got the chance.

Lots of question marks in this rebuild, that's for sure.

Roof-Daddy · 09-08-2019, 12:48 PM

There is so many decent SP's as free agents this off season, some elite ones even.

Going to be hard to get any of them to sign with a 100~ loss team though, even if the Jays FO is willing to pay more than anyone else.

flames_fan_down_under · 09-08-2019, 01:33 PM

Well Shapiro was on the radio saying how these late season divisional games are going to be a measuring stick for the young Jays, so far it shows there is a lot of work to be done. Shapiro, earlier in the season, was also using some arbitrary endpoints to show that the Jays were becoming more competitive, I feel this latest run of futility has to be sobering new for Mark and Russ.

I will say that trying to glean what a Blue Jays team looks like by watching them play in Tampa as we all know is useless. Even the Jays of 2015 looked fairly bad at the Trop. Not making excuses for this very very very bad team, just that there is a Flames Honda Centre like curse following this team around at the Trop. Also the Rays are pretty damn good.

Parallex · 09-09-2019, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

There is so many decent SP's as free agents this off season, some elite ones even.

True... but the only one that isn't on the wrong side of 30 is Cole and I'm inherently apprehensive of committing long-term big dollars to any 30+ pitcher.

Roof-Daddy · 09-09-2019, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parallex

True... but the only one that isn't on the wrong side of 30 is Cole and I'm inherently apprehensive of committing long-term big dollars to any 30+ pitcher.

If the Jays FO believes in the group of young arms they have coming, but also want to start to compete next season, maybe they go after 2-3 older starting pitchers on short term deals.

Guys like Ryu, Hill, Hamels, Kuechel or Miley maybe.

Stop gaps to help win while Pearson, SWR, Manoah and Kloffenstein work their way up to the big leagues.

Parallex · 09-09-2019, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If the Jays FO believes in the group of young arms they have coming, but also want to start to compete next season, maybe they go after 2-3 older starting pitchers on short term deals.

Guys like Ryu, Hill, Hamels, Kuechel or Miley maybe.

I don't think Kuechel is keen on signing a short-term deal (he probably should be open to it thou... older guys with non-premium velo aren't prized these days regardless of their GB rates).