2017-18 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread - Page 43 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Senator Clay Davis · 07-13-2018, 01:14 PM

Yeah and that would ultimately be why the Raps should do it, their window is all but closed anyways, might as well take a shot. Plus it can fast track the tanking since you can overpay for Leonard and that won't look as bad.

bluejays · 07-13-2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Well, yes. The Warriors are a dynasty that I don't see any NBA roster capable of beating right now. But, give yourself the chance to get there and you're a KD or Steph rolled ankle away from having a fighting chance at a championship. Never know what can happen in a 7 game series especially with an elite talent like Kawhi in the fold.

If you need to rebuild anyway, give yourself the final crack with this core and then blow it up. Do a total rebuild, tank is on, and build through elite talent in the draft. Doesn't work in every sport but IMO without elite talent your best case is where the Raps are now; a playoff team without a game breaker capable of winning a competitive series.

It's a different perspective and it does bring something to think about, but in the NBA where if you have a star player, you're guaranteed to make the playoffs with a half decent supporting cast. However, despite still having a decent supporting cast SA didn't make the playoffs, and that's not an elite player to me. Semantics I know, but SA on paper despite being old is still a good enough team and with Kawhi they should've been able to get there.

As for the Raps, despite the point you bring up to go all in this year, there is a business aspect to pro sports. As an owner (Rogers), I'm sure they'd rather go 3 rounds for two years (continuing the status quo), than 4 rounds the first year and none for the second year (going all in for Leonard).

SebC · 07-13-2018, 05:51 PM

Seems odd to me that the people who take for granted the difficulty to build even a regular season monster and want to blow it up would also be Flames.

dino7c · 07-13-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Well, yes. The Warriors are a dynasty that I don't see any NBA roster capable of beating right now. But, give yourself the chance to get there and you're a KD or Steph rolled ankle away from having a fighting chance at a championship. Never know what can happen in a 7 game series especially with an elite talent like Kawhi in the fold.

If you need to rebuild anyway, give yourself the final crack with this core and then blow it up. Do a total rebuild, tank is on, and build through elite talent in the draft. Doesn't work in every sport but IMO without elite talent your best case is where the Raps are now; a playoff team without a game breaker capable of winning a competitive series.

yeah I would do it, why not...its just hard to get excited about the NBA right now

howard_the_duck · 07-17-2018, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

It's a different perspective and it does bring something to think about, but in the NBA where if you have a star player, you're guaranteed to make the playoffs with a half decent supporting cast. However, despite still having a decent supporting cast SA didn't make the playoffs, and that's not an elite player to me. Semantics I know, but SA on paper despite being old is still a good enough team and with Kawhi they should've been able to get there.

As for the Raps, despite the point you bring up to go all in this year, there is a business aspect to pro sports. As an owner (Rogers), I'm sure they'd rather go 3 rounds for two years (continuing the status quo), than 4 rounds the first year and none for the second year (going all in for Leonard).

I think if I'm MLSE you simply have to buy into the 'all-in' and ensuing scorched earth rebuild if you're being realistic about winning in today's NBA. There are currently 3-4 teams, with really 1, that has a chance to win a title. For everyone else, unless you drafted a generational talent and can coax his buddies to come play with him during free agency, it's a total crapshoot. Hell, even GS before Durant and now Cousins, that's a core that was built through the draft.

For the Raps, I actually feel that the scorched earth and being bad for a couple of seasons path is less painful than the slow death of mediocrity for the remaining pieces of this roster. Likely too much talent on the roster even after DD and Lowry move on to be a lottery team, and that means less chance of drafting a franchise player to kick this thing back into gear. So, perhaps 1-3 seasons of really tough basketball, but IMO a shorter window of suffering than the alternative.

bluejays · 07-17-2018, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think if I'm MLSE you simply have to buy into the 'all-in' and ensuing scorched earth rebuild if you're being realistic about winning in today's NBA. There are currently 3-4 teams, with really 1, that has a chance to win a title. For everyone else, unless you drafted a generational talent and can coax his buddies to come play with him during free agency, it's a total crapshoot. Hell, even GS before Durant and now Cousins, that's a core that was built through the draft.

For the Raps, I actually feel that the scorched earth and being bad for a couple of seasons path is less painful than the slow death of mediocrity for the remaining pieces of this roster. Likely too much talent on the roster even after DD and Lowry move on to be a lottery team, and that means less chance of drafting a franchise player to kick this thing back into gear. So, perhaps 1-3 seasons of really tough basketball, but IMO a shorter window of suffering than the alternative.

This is not a hit on ownership, who IMO, has done just fine given the Canadian dollar right now. However, as an owner I'm not sure Rogers has the balls to go 3 years without playoff revenue. I guess it's basketball and even a mediocre team can get in, but this is going all in for a guy who will not re-sign with you. Seems unnecessary if OG or Poetl is included along with a guy like DeRozan. The package I'd part with would be Kyle, Val and a 1st, take it or leave it. DeRozan and Kawhi would be a pretty good combo, along with OG on the floor and FVV starting? I'd think that would be a decent lineup. I don't think there's that much of a market right now that they have to give up the future and a premier talent for what amounts to a rental.

Senator Clay Davis · 07-18-2018, 05:23 AM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019481497437392898

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019492712167411712

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019500916880240640

Senator Clay Davis · 07-18-2018, 06:36 AM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019555631810801666

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019557923331043331

SuperMatt18 · 07-18-2018, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Spurs probably don’t want to rebuild and neither do the raptors.

Wonder if either side would look at something around Derozan and Leonard.

#NBAInsiderrrrr

Senator Clay Davis · 07-18-2018, 06:56 AM

Definitely not good if true.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019563295374749702

Jason14h · 07-18-2018, 06:59 AM

Doesn’t sound like Kawaii wants to play in Toronto either ....

I wonder if they flip him and start fresh ?

dammage79 · 07-18-2018, 07:04 AM

Spurs have agree to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Trade call with league office is starting shortly.

RichKlit · 07-18-2018, 07:05 AM

Wow I hope this isn’t true! Not a good look for the Raps if the reports are true. Demar has been loyal and loved T.O. And what’s the point if Leonard doesn’t want to be here? Blow up the team for one year of a disinterested unhappy player?

dammage79 · 07-18-2018, 07:09 AM

Swinging for a top 5 player is massive. I do wonder if he even wears a Raptors jersey.

Senator Clay Davis · 07-18-2018, 07:12 AM

Well Kawhi not wanting to play in Toronto is probably a long-term thing, because if he wants a max contract from the Lakers next summer, he needs to prove he's actually still a top 3 player. If he pouts or goes into shutdown mode, he's gonna cost himself a ton of money and at that point the Lakers may have no interest in a selfish player like that. I definitely feel terrible for DeMar, all he did was get better every year and show strong loyalty to the team and city. But if you're going for broke anyway, Kawhi is clearly the much better player. Still not even sure this is enough to get past Boston, but I'd also like to think if they're going for broke next year, there will be another trade to come.

RichKlit · 07-18-2018, 07:12 AM

Doubt it. He’s going to hold out and wait the season out or force a trade to one of the LA teams. He has done he’s best to ruin his rep over the last year.

dammage79 · 07-18-2018, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well Kawhi not wanting to play in Toronto is probably a long-term thing, because if he wants a max contract from the Lakers next summer, he needs to prove he's actually still a top 3 player. If he pouts or goes into shutdown mode, he's gonna cost himself a ton of money and at that point the Lakers may have no interest in a selfish player like that. I definitely feel terrible for DeMar, all he did was get better every year and show strong loyalty to the team and city. But if you're going for broke anyway, Kawhi is clearly the much better player. Still not even sure this is enough to get past Boston, but I'd also like to think if they're going for broke next year, there will be another trade to come.

Yeah, Lowry for something.

dammage79 · 07-18-2018, 07:16 AM

Reeks of desperation from Toronto honestly. Trying to think of a trade in hockey comparable. Only thing I can think of isn't a trade but the Lindros draft.

RichKlit · 07-18-2018, 07:30 AM

After reading more he will have to report or he will be fined escalating amounts for every practice, game and team event missed unless he can prove a medical issue. Also I doubt he wants to miss 2 full years of ball, would kill his next contract.

bluejays · 07-18-2018, 08:07 AM

For what the Raps give up compared to what we were thinking they were potentially going to give up, I have no problem with the deal. It's a protected 1st, and the combo of Poetl and DeRozan seems fair. I have concerns with Kawhi's attitude with this though, and really thought a combo of Kawhi/Demar would've been elite on how their front court would've attacked the basket. I really hope the Raps can pull a quick one off to deal Lowry and get someone to take on Ibaka for an inside presence. Though a small downgrade, FVV as starting PG is just fine as long as their front court can offset.