Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is that really what you think his argument is? Honestly?

No, i was being hyperbolic.

But I can honestly not fully grasp what his argument is. It just seems rather heartless.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

No, i was being hyperbolic.

But I can honestly not fully grasp what his argument is. It just seems rather heartless.

Well thank god that our court and legal system isn't based on "heart" and "feelings".

[Titan]

Originally Posted by Yamer

However, I personally believe that there was greater disregard by Chauvin for the action and attention around him because of who George Floyd was, including the color of his skin. That doesn't necessarily mean a direct, overt act of racism, but I think it illustrates a systemic problem that infects and/or is too easily manifested in police like Chauvin.

I think the most important factor is the above. There were 3-4 other cops that watched him kneel on his neck for almost 9 minutes. The SYSTEM killed Floyd as much as Chauvin did. Why did not one of them push him off and put Floyd in a recovery position or allow him to breathe? One of the most important things that have come out of this for me is the single-minded "team" aspect of the police. It is them against everyone and they abuse regardless of colour. It is this mentality that is the greatest danger. I absolutely agree that racism is a massive cause of the number of interactions as stated by someone above, but once that interaction begins the cops act like a pack of wild dogs to dominate the "suspect".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

No, i was being hyperbolic.

But I can honestly not fully grasp what his argument is. It just seems rather heartless.

So...just to be clear, if you're high in public its legal for you to be extra-judicially murdered on the spot?

Good to know.

[White Out 403]

This thread is becoming a parody.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This thread is becoming a parody.

Well, every parody needs a clown. Know any good ones?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I've been doing some heavy scrolling so excuse me if I'm off the mark here...

Is it being insinuated that Floyd was high at the time of his murder? That could not be more irrelevant, and the attempted misdirection by even bringing this up says a lot about a person.

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

No dude, once you are high you are literally a walking corpse. And corpses don't have rights.

Or that's what I gather the argument is.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is that really what you think his argument is? Honestly?

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

No, i was being hyperbolic.

But I can honestly not fully grasp what his argument is. It just seems rather heartless.

Originally Posted by Locke

So...just to be clear, if you're high in public its legal for you to be extra-judicially murdered on the spot?

Good to know.

Read that again and tell me what's happening here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Read that again and tell me what's happening here.

Okay.

I see a lot of sarcasm indicating that the initial opinion of the George Floyd incident remains correct and accurate despite attempted deflection and victim blaming insinuating that the Police Officers were withing their rights because Floyd might have or might not have been on drugs.

Overlooking the fact that Floyd's impairment status in no way changes the fact that what the officers did was objectively and conclusively wrong.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay.

I see a lot of sarcasm indicating that the initial opinion of the George Floyd incident remains correct and accurate despite attempted deflection and victim blaming insinuating that the Police Officers were withing their rights because Floyd might have or might not have been on drugs.

Overlooking the fact that Floyd's impairment status in no way changes the fact that what the officers did was objectively and conclusively wrong.

Ok. Good, we're in agreement. Where in this thread is there anyone suggesting he shouldn't be going to prison? I'll wait.

[PepsiFree]

Maybe for clarification to avoid the issue you're having you could explain why you thought Floyd maybe being high was relevant?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe for clarification to avoid the issue you're having you could explain why you thought Floyd maybe being high was relevant?

I think I've already made this point, but, sure. Him being high and in medical distress, and complaining about not being able to breathe before he was put to ground all harm the prosecutors ability to prove intent.

[FlamesAddiction]

Of course the defense is going to argue that the drugs in his system impacted his health at the time enough to cause death in a situation where it would not have been likely otherwise.

The trial is going to be a huge medical argument with experts from both sides arguing back and forth. If I am being honest, I do think it puts a 2nd degree murder conviction at risk just going by the cold letter of the law if the defense can cause a even a small degree of reasonable doubt.

If you shoot someone in the head while they have drugs in their system, it is obviously cut and dry that the drugs had no effect. I personally think that when you kneel on someone's neck for 10 minutes, it is also pretty likely that anyone, drugs or not, would be in danger of death. Police procedures even warn against doing this. But when it comes to trials, you have to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. That part is going to be tricky because there is going to be a lot of debate over what is possible, versus what is likely.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This thread is becoming a parody.

But... but... you made it that way... !

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I think I've already made this point, but, sure. Him being high and in medical distress, and complaining about not being able to breathe before he was put to ground all harm the prosecutors ability to prove intent.

Didn't we already see evidence through the toxicology report that he wasn't high? Why do you keep saying he was high?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Didn't we already see evidence through the toxicology report that he wasn't high? Why do you keep saying he was high?

The toxicology report showed drugs in his system. Was he sober? Who knows. Drugs and alcohol affect people very differently. This will be in a court of law where they will be sure to paint him as a meth head who resisted arrest. The jury will absolutely have it pounded into him that there was meth found in his body and that will play a factor.

This isn't going to be a trial by philosopher kings and queens, it's going be every day Americans.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I think I've already made this point, but, sure. Him being high and in medical distress, and complaining about not being able to breathe before he was put to ground all harm the prosecutors ability to prove intent.

One more time. Floyd's autopsy drug screen.

Fentanyl 11 ng/mL2.
Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL3.
4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL4.
Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL5.
11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL6.
Cotinine positive.
Caffeine positive.

Here are the cutoffs to pass a drug test.

Drug Nanograms per Milliliter (ng/ml)

Marijuana metabolite - 15
Cocaine metabolite - 100
Opiates
Morphine - 2000
Codeine - 2000
6-acetylmorphine - 10

Phencyclidine (PCP) 25

Amphetamines
Amphetamine - 250
Methamphetamine - 250
MDMA - 250
MDA - 250
MDEA - 250

Drug detection times are also important, as they give us an idea of possible use. The longer the detection time and the smaller the amount means the drug was ingested further in the past.

Amphetamines - 1-2 days
Cocaine - 1-4 days
Methamphetamine - 1-4 days
Phencyclidine - 2-8 days
Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) - 1 day to five weeks.

The trace levels in Floyd's blood stream do not support he was high on anything. He was a drug user, but he had not used that day and was not high at the time of his death.

Originally Posted by White Out 403

The toxicology report showed drugs in his system.

So little drugs he would have passed any drug test for employment and any sobriety test made my law enforcement.

Was he sober?

Yes, he was sober. The autopsy toxicology report proves that.

Who knows.

The coroner and law enforcement know that. The attorneys are going to know that as well.

Drugs and alcohol affect people very differently. This will be in a court of law where they will be sure to paint him as a meth head who resisted arrest. The jury will absolutely have it pounded into him that there was meth found in his body and that will play a factor.

And when that is attempted there will be an objection, the evidence will be brought up again, and the facts will be drilled into the heads of the jury.

This isn't going to be a trial by philosopher kings and queens, it's going be every day Americans.

Everyday Americans who will be able to see that the evidence clearly shows he was NOT intoxicated. This is not rocket science, but you are sure trying to make it that way.

[Magnum PEI]

He had a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. I think the other stuff was fairly low amounts (meth, morphine, cannabis).

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

He had a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. I think the other stuff was fairly low amounts (meth, morphine, cannabis).

Is that so? I don't know how much he had in him compared to what a lethal dose is.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Is that so? I don't know how much he had in him compared to what a lethal dose is.

Do you have New Era on mute? Because he has posted the toxicology report twice now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

He had a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. I think the other stuff was fairly low amounts (meth, morphine, cannabis).

Lethal does of Fentanyl is 2 milligrams, depending on built up tolerance. Floyd has 11 nanograms in his system, or .00055 of a lethal dose.