Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[Senator Clay Davis]

Thats a great point GP. It is a form of negligence to not take every precaution to protect your children from disease or illness, is it not? And in the case of something like whooping cough that can easily be passed on to someone else, you could argue not vaccinating your child is tantamount to the spreading of a virus/disease.

[Table 5]

This thread is no fun if everyone is on the same side. There's gotta be a few crazies on CP to rile up the debate.

[GP_Matt]

I could play devil's advocate to get things going I suppose.

I know several people whose children developed autism shortly after getting their MMR vaccine. Two of them had a second child and didn't vaccinate the second who grew up autism free. QED vaccines cause autism.

Also, I don't actually think Rubella is a real disease. I certainly don't know anyone who has had it. Why is the pharmaceutical backed government trying to vaccinate us against made up diseases? I will tell you why, profit. They weren't making enough money vaccinating against real diseases so they decided to make up a few. And on that note, if they really cared they would put the effort into curing the disease instead. Why are they letting these diseases exist when they could cure it.

Also, more nonsensical things here.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have made the choice not to have my child vaccinated after their 4 month shots, however Autism wasn't the main consideration. I don't like the sheer amount of crap they put in the vaccines and the fact that there are allergens in them (eggs, sorbitol, feathers) that have had adverse reactions with a number of family members. I do not feel this is the safest way to build up an immunity in a small child.

When they come up with a way to protect against disease without putting far too many chemicals into these small children, I'll rethink my stance. Also, when they actually employ proper hygiene and knowledgable staff in vaccination clinics and not women who say "Well you have to do this otherwise (insert scare tactic)", I may rethink my stance.

And I realize my opinion is unpopular and I have been called everything from a murderer letting my child walk around infect the immune deficient to having people suggest I should have my child taken away for my decision. I think the debates on the subject elict far too much of an emotional response for either side to come to common ground. Those who decide to vaccine do so and stand by it viligantly. Those who don't, do the same. Nothing good ever comes from the discussion.

It is a free land and you have the right to do what you'll do. But if your kid ever gets cancer, who are you gonna take it to? The guy with the tie-dye shirt, dreadlocks and the bong who tells you about homeopathic BS or a guy who went to school for a decade and sacrificed any shot at sustaining normal human relationships to help save your kid's life?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I could play devil's advocate to get things going I suppose.

I know several people whose children developed autism shortly after getting their MMR vaccine. Two of them had a second child and didn't vaccinate the second who grew up autism free. QED vaccines cause autism.

Also, I don't actually think Rubella is a real disease. I certainly don't know anyone who has had it. Why is the pharmaceutical backed government trying to vaccinate us against made up diseases? I will tell you why, profit. They weren't making enough money vaccinating against real diseases so they decided to make up a few. And on that note, if they really cared they would put the effort into curing the disease instead. Why are they letting these diseases exist when they could cure it.

Also, more nonsensical things here.

1. Correlation does not = causation.

2. If nobody you know has ever had rubella, and they've all been vaccinated for it, shouldn't that be a pretty spiffy indication that the vaccine works?

3. On the way to admittedly HUGE profits, 'Big Pharma' has also reduced the lethality of many types of cancer and turned AIDS from a death sentence to a chronic condition that doesn't have to impact large amounts of your life. Vaccinations are a one-time thing that cost barely anything; do you think they'd be into hyping that machine up for the one time anyone ever gets them, or be more concerned keeping the prescriptions for Vicodin, Oxycontin, Adderall etc coming and keeping pot illegal?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I can say with certainty that politicizing everything and turning everything into a right/left debate is ruining our civility in politics, and in the world as a whole.

Sheiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

1. Correlation does not = causation.

2. If nobody you know has ever had rubella, and they've all been vaccinated for it, shouldn't that be a pretty spiffy indication that the vaccine works?

3. On the way to admittedly HUGE profits, 'Big Pharma' has also reduced the lethality of many types of cancer and turned AIDS from a death sentence to a chronic condition that doesn't have to impact large amounts of your life. Vaccinations are a one-time thing that cost barely anything; do you think they'd be into hyping that machine up for the one time anyone ever gets them, or be more concerned keeping the prescriptions for Vicodin, Oxycontin, Adderall etc coming and keeping pot illegal?

To add to this, vaccines are the least profitable, highest cost and biggest risk of lawsuit for pharmaceutics.

Lets get to the point, most childhood developmental issues become noticeable between 6 months to 2 years, depending on what we are talking about of course.

During these early years, vaccinations are the major medical intervention most parents have to deal with, so ergo IF my child develops some issues, it must be because of the needles and stuff put into my child.

Anyone who knows anything about this research, knows we've spend an incredible amount of time and resources studying this very possibility, because it was suspect number 1.

It has shown nothing to tie these vaccinations to what those who claim vaccination does. We are talking 100,000's of children studied over 2 decades and more.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm not against vaccines in general, but I was against all the media created hysteria that surrounded the H1N1 fiasco. There is nothing wrong with people waiting to see how a new vaccine will work out before rushing out to slam a needle full of it into your body. For high risk people, I can see why you wouldn't wait, but it was disgusting the way some people were tripping over higher priority people to get the vaccine and then calling other people "murderers" for not running out to get it.

That's a different issue than vaccines that have been around for a long time though and have been tested over and over. I think people who don't vaccinate against things like whooping cough are fools (like my sister-in-law and her family).

[Thor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not against vaccines in general, but I was against all the media created hysteria that surrounded the H1N1 fiasco. There is nothing wrong with people waiting to see how a new vaccine will work out before rushing out to slam a needle full of it into your body. For high risk people, I can see why you wouldn't wait, but it was disgusting the way some people were tripping over higher priority people to get the vaccine and then calling other people "murderers" for not running out to get it.

Ultimately the media is to blame, but you have to understand the perspective of the WHO and those who study communicable diseases. We are playing Russian roulette as a planet, we are just waiting on a modern Spanish flu that will devastate our planet.

Within the halls of WHO, virologists and infectious disease scientists world wide; is how do we communicate to the world the risks, of seasonal flu, to higher risk flu (h1n1) which has a higher risk of problems... Media tends to over sensationalize, but the science has to be honest to the public.

So yeah the H1N1 will be looked at as some failure even though we don't hear of its successes, it was not ideally handled.

The complexity of these viruses makes it something akin to those trying to warn us from eruptions, its not an exact science, so how do you tell the public what you fear might be coming, if not telling them what you think; based on the best evidence you have.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not against vaccines in general, but I was against all the media created hysteria that surrounded the H1N1 fiasco. There is nothing wrong with people waiting to see how a new vaccine will work out before rushing out to slam a needle full of it into your body. For high risk people, I can see why you wouldn't wait, but it was disgusting the way some people were tripping over higher priority people to get the vaccine and then calling other people "murderers" for not running out to get it.

That's a different issue than vaccines that have been around for a long time though and have been tested over and over. I think people who don't vaccinate against things like whooping cough are fools (like my sister-in-law and her family).

Minor point - the H1N1 vaccine wasn't a new vaccine; it was just a flu vaccine (albeit a version with an adjuvant to allow for increased production which wasn't normally used here but was used in Europe for several years previously). The only reason it came out as a separate vaccine was because that year's vaccine was already in production when H1N1 appeared. I do agree that the way it was rolled out was a fiasco - hopefully lessons learned will be applied in the future so if the next outbreak is as bad as they thought H1N1 might turn out to be we'll handle it better.

[corporatejay]

But isn't the point that if we didn't mass vaccinate people against H1N1 it would have turned into a global problem? You can't wait to see how these things play out, by then its too late.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Thor

Ultimately the media is to blame, but you have to understand the perspective of the WHO and those who study communicable diseases. We are playing Russian roulette as a planet, we are just waiting on a modern Spanish flu that will devastate our planet.

Within the halls of WHO, virologists and infectious disease scientists world wide; is how do we communicate to the world the risks, of seasonal flu, to higher risk flu (h1n1) which has a higher risk of problems... Media tends to over sensationalize, but the science has to be honest to the public.

So yeah the H1N1 will be looked at as some failure even though we don't hear of its successes, it was not ideally handled.

The complexity of these viruses makes it something akin to those trying to warn us from eruptions, its not an exact science, so how do you tell the public what you fear might be coming, if not telling them what you think; based on the best evidence you have.

I think our culture of "there are two valid sides to every story" is also to blame. It's somehow wrong to say their ideas don't have any merit on a national/global scale

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

1. Correlation does not = causation.

2. If nobody you know has ever had rubella, and they've all been vaccinated for it, shouldn't that be a pretty spiffy indication that the vaccine works?

3. On the way to admittedly HUGE profits, 'Big Pharma' has also reduced the lethality of many types of cancer and turned AIDS from a death sentence to a chronic condition that doesn't have to impact large amounts of your life. Vaccinations are a one-time thing that cost barely anything; do you think they'd be into hyping that machine up for the one time anyone ever gets them, or be more concerned keeping the prescriptions for Vicodin, Oxycontin, Adderall etc coming and keeping pot illegal?

Did you honestly think that post needed a serious response?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Speaking of big pharma.......

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2010/01/...r-merck-drugs/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8610S720120702

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/bu...ment.html?_r=1

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/27/47851.htm

Make it mandatory!......

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Did you honestly think that post needed a serious response?

Apparently, as I gave a serious/dismissive response. But maybe mix in a smiley or lol next time and I'll be more aPt to pick up the intent.

[GP_Matt]

I thought my comments were ridiculous enough that the smiley wasn't needed.

Also, the last statement was

Also, more nonsensical things here

[Nyah]

I try not to really have an opinion regarding vaccines for kids because I don't have kids and admitedly, I really don't know much about it. I'm sure vaccines these days are tested safe, but I can still see why some parents may worry. That being said, I saw this posted on Facebook. DTaP is apparently one of the recommended childhood immunizations:



http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../ucm101580.pdf

[Knut]

^ Legally they have to list all "reported" events after the vaccination, whether it is related or not.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by Hesla

^ Legally they have to list all "reported" events after the vaccination, whether it is related or not.

I know. I'm just saying I can see why some parents might have concerns after reading this. I guess the key is to educate yourself - vaccines obviously do more good than harm, otherwise they wouldn't be used.

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by Nyah

I know. I'm just saying I can see why some parents might have concerns after reading this. I guess the key is to educate yourself - vaccines obviously do more good than harm, otherwise they wouldn't be used.

The key is also to read the entirety of the evidence for your side of the argument and not cherry pick information based on your already established preconceptions. Immediately following the highlighted parts it states

Events were included in this list because of seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.