2019 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 87 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

transplant99 · 09-29-2019, 06:35 PM

2 years in a row.....dead on with their final record. Almost nailed how many games behind as well this years.

This year

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...80&postcount=3

Last year

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...2&postcount=11

Look for Zelda the future teller shop opening near you soon.

Maybe next year I will predict 100 wins?

bluejays · 09-30-2019, 08:16 PM

With Smoak, I'm not sure who they'll replace him with. It's odd but 1st baseman are traditionally power hitters. If you want to go the conventional route, I'm not sure there's a massive upgrade right now. If you go a different route, surely another prospect will be given a chance to take his spot, but I doubt they'd be as good. Personally, I think he's good enough to be given a 1 year contract to stay at 1st, then move on once the big three have developed a little more next year. He certainly appears to be a subtle leader.

KootenayFlamesFan · 10-01-2019, 01:25 PM

Didn't watch much of Atkins or Shapiro talk today, but this quote was a bit interesting. I'm assuming a bad, rebuilding club has to spend more just to get decent players to think about signing with the Jays. I expect it won't move the needle much in regards to how bad this team will be again next year. Just have to be patient with their young guys and hope they can find any kind of pitching somewhere.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1179100185009504256

bluejays · 10-01-2019, 06:34 PM

This I don't like. What I'm going to say may not make sense to most given most don't think Rogers spends, but in this case I'd wish Rogers would hold back a year. Simply put, I think bringing in veteran leaders who are just solid for a year could work to develop your young guys. I'd say the big three arguably are a year ahead of what most thought they'd be (including me), but next year the scouting reports will be well thought out, and I'd like to see how they'd adjust to the other teams' approaches on them. Rushing by spending at the wrong time is such a corporate thing to do. The Leafs tried doing it with Burke when there was the slightest chance of promise and it didn't work out. I really think one year extra developing these guys without "going for it" would do well. But I also recognize Rogers wants this rebuild to be quick because there's an ecosystem of changes happening with the remodeled stadium and that has to align with a winning team. I fear rushing it will really backfire.

KootenayFlamesFan · 10-01-2019, 08:12 PM

I don't think they're going to spend like crazy, just more than they have the past couple of years. If they can put some money into pitching and at least stay competitive while the young guys keep developing at least the fans will have something more to cheer for. They certainly won't be going for it quite yet, they're nowhere near competitive enough, especially considering the division they're in.

Resolute 14 · 10-01-2019, 08:20 PM

Part of the problem is that they *have* to pump a bunch of money into the pitching. In particular, they need someone who can at least be passable as an "ace". Not a $20+ millin pitcher, but someone with enough skill to win 13-16 games and be a steadying presence. Maybe on a 3-4 year deal. That's going to cost.

Roof-Daddy · 10-01-2019, 08:37 PM

I wonder if there is any chance the Jays could trade for Kluber on the cheap after the year he just had?

Indians are cheap and he's due IIRC $19 or $20 million next season and just had an injury plagued -0.7 WAR season. He could easily bounce back and if he does there is a team option for 2021.

Do that and sign a guy like Wheeler, then let Shoemaker, Thornton, Kay, Waguespack, Borucki, Pearson, Zeuch, Merryweather etc fight for 3 thru 5.

cross16 · 10-02-2019, 10:20 AM

Shaprio and Atkins were both pretty clear however that they don't necessarily feel this club is ready to compete next year. They are honest they need to see the club make that transition itself, so while they are going to spend more I don't foresee them going crazy with it or rushing it. They said they don' want to "win the off-season" and also mentioned the likes of the Phillies and Padres who have spent big and not won anything.

I think the idea of Kluber is something more along the lines of what they would do. They've mentioned being prepared to take on dollars and contracts via trade, not just spend in FA.

bluejays · 10-02-2019, 01:29 PM

I like the idea of Kluber. I'm sure a lot of teams wouldn't mind spending the money and seeing how it works out. He's a crazy good arm when healthy.

flames_fan_down_under · 10-02-2019, 04:59 PM

Well looking at sportrac.com the Jays have a total of 29 million committed to the payroll in 2020, 14 million of which is going to Tulowitzki, obviously that number will increase with players who have arbitration rights, players under team control etc. Once those guys get signed and the inevitable non-tendering of certain players occurs (Maille, Boshers to name a couple) I suspect the payroll to come in around 50 million, rough estimate. That leaves a lot of payroll flexibility.

As you guys have already mentioned pitching will be a priority, as it will be for many teams. I think Kluber is a smart call as Cleveland will likely be looking to shed some payroll. A guy like Rick Porcello has value as he is is pretty durable and his numbers were not good this year so could be had a decent price. Tanner Roark, Jake Odorizzi, Chris Archer are also names that I feel would fall into the Jays price range. The Gerrit Coles/Zack Wheelers/MadBums, I feel, will be a little pricey and the cost efficiency-minded Jays front office will not venture into those lofty price ranges.

The free agents available at first base and in the outfield aren't all that exciting. In the outfield Ozuna is a name that stands out, along with Starling Marte with the Pirates who have a club option. First base is pretty barren, Anthony Rizzo with a club option is the premier guy, i imagine the Cubs will exercise that option. I could see the Jays taking a stab at Mitch Moreland, average numbers across the board, decent OBP, decent defense, some pop, just has boring value signing written all over him tbh which will no doubt entice the Jays front office.

My prediction is: Tanner Roark, Mitch Moreland, Corey Dickerson being signed by the Jays. They will no doubt take a flyer on some reclamation projects, like relief pitchers coming off TJ that have been non-tendered by other clubs a la David Phelps. I think they will adjust their calculus in terms of leveraging these sorts of signings as potential trade bait though and think more long term, at least I would hope so as seeing the cupboards stripped bare every trade deadline would get increasingly more depressing.

browna · 10-02-2019, 08:09 PM

Sounds like they’ll take on more salary simply because they don’t want to finish worse than this year and, unequivocally need some major league pitching after ditching 3 regulars last season. Hardly something to be excited about.

And, also contained an element of trying to help out the ticket office for those early season ticket renewals, and, because they’re generally trying to sell hope, and finally, because this is now their team, no excuses of retained Gibby/Anthopolus “anchors”.

Jays lead the league for second straight year in overall decline in attendance year over year in MLB.

jayswin · 10-03-2019, 09:28 PM

How amazing is it seeing Donaldson resurrect his career? They were gushing about him on the broadcast, and laughing at how AA was criticized for offering him $23mil, now they're talking extension.

He's such a stone faced gamer. A true playoff player and winner. I hope the Braves win it all for him and our Calgary boy.

Roof-Daddy · 10-03-2019, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

How amazing is it seeing Donaldson resurrect his career? They were gushing about him on the broadcast, and laughing at how AA was criticized for offering him $23mil, now they're talking extension.

He's such a stone faced gamer. A true playoff player and winner. I hope the Braves win it all for him and our Calgary boy.

Wasn't really much to resurrect. He had one bad half an injury riddled season where he still put up around a .750 OPS. Then after being traded and getting heathy he was right back to mashing for Cleveland.

It really is amazing how horrible the Jays luck was timing wise for having to trade the guy. Literally worst case scenario really.

bluejays · 10-04-2019, 07:38 PM

I'm pretty sure most here thought Donaldson would bounce back at some point in the short term. It didn't appear to be chronic, though that stuff creeps up over time. There were a lot of teams that didn't make a fair offer, and it's to their detriment. I don't think doing a long term deal would be smart, but 4-5 years max makes sense if the dollar value is around $21M.

transplant99 · 10-12-2019, 09:08 AM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1183033268381372416

Resolute 14 · 10-12-2019, 12:56 PM

From what I've seen on Twitter and Reddit, the general opinion of Atkins and Shapiro is markedly different between the fans and other MLB execs.

Myself, I'm no different. I'd be just fine if both were shown the door.

Caged Great · 10-12-2019, 02:03 PM

Atkins and Shapiro have done an alright job with the hand they were dealt. They came in with a team that was full of 30+ guys and a fairly horrible prospect base outside of two or three guys. The rebuild was coming either way. Yes they could have got more for certain players and perhaps signed EE instead of Morales. However, they would still be in the same position now if they stayed competitive. I don't think the Jays would have made the playoffs in any of the past couple seasons even if they kept those that were important. Rebuilding just plain sucks while you're going through it.

However, the jays are basically set in the infield for a long time and have a ton of quality prospects at all positions. Just have to wait and see if certain guys can take that next step. We're just in that waiting spot for another year or two. The key for the Jays will be to get a few decent quality arms for the rotation, even if they are just typical 3/4 guys. They need at least 3 starters to be on a good footing for a while. Then go for the typical reclamation project pitchers for the pen and for filler regular spots and see if any of them net you a prospect or two at the deadline. Draft well and things should turn around fairly quickly. Look how bad the Astros were in the early part of the decade. Basically as bad as the Jays are now. They are alright and so will the Jays. Just takes time.

browna · 10-13-2019, 12:13 AM

They’re cheap, Rogers is cheap, so nothing will change. AA had to basically promise to leave at the end of that season to get Rogers to spend money to add players, and Rogers broke a promise to the team the year before about spending and the team, near first place at the all star break, fell off the cliff.

So now with a cheap GM and President, no chance of that happening. Only thing that may occur is if attendance continues its downward spiral and that catches someone’s attention in the Rogers offices. It has dropped 50% over 3 seasons ago, last year the 4th worst attendance in the 29 years of Skydome, and and runs a real good chance of next season of being the worst in attendance in this era.

bluejays · 10-13-2019, 10:21 PM

I don't like Atkins or Shapiro, for times mentioned over and over that I won't bring up, but I do believe signing to an extension is a right move at least for the President. You bring in another guy, Dombrowski or whomever, they pivot another direction and next thing the rebuild is another 5 years in the making. So you gotta give the current management the chance to turn it around within 3 years or so. Plus, I still think the revitalization project of Rogers Centre and surrounding area will be Shapiro's 1B project. I'm just as curious to hear more about that.

As for Rogers being cheap, I don't believe that at all. Now is the time to be cheap if anything, but Rogers is anything from cheap when you're paying salaries in USD, but getting primarily CDN revenue. It's a calculated budget they're working with, but hardly something that we should be calling them cheap. The attendance is down because it's a rebuild and people have been angry about the two snakeoil salesman at the top. Lets not call this an issue of cheapness leading to fans not coming out.

browna · 10-13-2019, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

As for Rogers being cheap, I don't believe that at all. Now is the time to be cheap if anything, but Rogers is anything from cheap when you're paying salaries in USD, but getting primarily CDN revenue. It's a calculated budget they're working with, but hardly something that we should be calling them cheap. The attendance is down because it's a rebuild and people have been angry about the two snakeoil salesman at the top. Lets not call this an issue of cheapness leading to fans not coming out.

They’re cheap in the sense of very reluctant to spend the money they have when it could mean the difference. As I mentioned, 2014 the year before the first playoff run, they were very close to first at the all star break. In the preseason, the players, and seemingly AA, wanted an additional SP, Santana, but AA couldn’t get Rogers to cough up in time.
AA told the players that Rogers was committed to winning and money would be there at the trade deadline to add, if the team was in contention.

Well, they were in contention, leading the division. Rogers went radio silent, no money was forthcoming, and the pissed off team hit the skids late July and into August.

Again, AA basically had to promise to Rogers to quit the next season in order to get the trades for Tulo done, and the crown jewel in Price and his salary added at that deadline. Rogers, bringing in Shapiro before that season ended, was an additional FU to AA to make sure it was widely known that AA’s tenure was done before he actually was gone.

With these two smiling slick haired guys currently installed by, and seemingly very fitting of, a Rogers corporate type hire, they’re the last ones expected to be putting their jobs on the line to get thier Rogers bosses to get off the check book like AA had to do.p by putting his own neck on the line.

So, thus why I think they are cheap. Even when the case was clear that the Jays needed a boost and could well win the division, and could’ve been in the playoffs for 3 years,Rogers went back on an early season promise and lied to the roster and AA.