[Trade] Hurricanes trade Fox to NYR for 2nd+Cond. 3rd UPD: Fox signs ELC

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Is it mandatory for teams to offer there draft picks contracts?

Nope

[Red Potato Standing By]

So then why do people think it should be mandatory for players to sign with the team that drafts them?
All the draft does for a team is give them exclusive rights to sign and develop said player, there is no obligation on either side to put their name on paper if there is something they don’t like. Yes it sucks that the team has to invest time and money, but that is part of doing business.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I'm not as interested in liking or not liking Adam Fox, or the rules.

Way more interested in how this was handled internally.

Could they have gotten more if they waited another year? Looks like it. But then they may not have gotten that deal done with Carolina, and I guess there's always the risk of having a player get hurt or have an off year hurting his value.

Closes the loop on the deal for the most part.

It was always asset management in trading Hamilton at a high (maybe not peak), Ferland at a high (wouldn't have resigned him) and clearly Fox as a prospect asset knowing he wouldn't sign.

This.

IMO when the questions are able to be answered many years down the road, BT will say that there was no deal for Hanifin and Lindholm that didn't include Fox as part of it (or Valimaki and maybe Kylington too).

So many were uttering the whole "why throw in Fox?" narrative when the deal went down. He was never a "throw in" at any point. He was part of the package that Carolina needed to make the trade...full stop.

He isn't included?

We dont see both players from Carolina that we saw this season. Knowing Fox had decided that he would not sign in Calgary, made it an easy decision for BT to include him.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

So then why do people think it should be mandatory for players to sign with the team that drafts them?
All the draft does for a team is give them exclusive rights to sign and develop said player, there is no obligation on either side to put their name on paper if there is something they don’t like. Yes it sucks that the team has to invest time and money, but that is part of doing business.

That is one of the reasons that longer shot players are drafted from the NCAA in later rounds, because a team invests virtually no time or money in the player for up to 4 years.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Split98

I think we all know Johnny is going to leave someday, and if he accomplishes something with us or at least gives us an opportunity like Panarin - so be it. That's how teams are build.

I really don't think he is. A young competitive team that will be good for years with a chance to own every Flames scoring record by the time he is done? I don't see it. At least not until he is at the end of the next long term contract he signs. I could see him doing a couple years in Philly at the end of his career but not before. Just my thoughts.

[Split98]

^ 100% agree. Someday he's leaving, and the competitiveness of the Flames at the end of this contract determines when.

Hopefully, the Flames are a team he wants to be a part of when it's time to re-sign. But I've always though (and am 100% cool with) him retiring wearing the jersey he always dreamed of. Hopefully, when that time comes, he's earned the hell out of that distinction! Maybe after a career with the Flames he decides he's wearing the jersey he wants to wear after all!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I really don't think he is. A young competitive team that will be good for years with a chance to own every Flames scoring record by the time he is done? I don't see it. At least not until he is at the end of the next long term contract he signs. I could see him doing a couple years in Philly at the end of his career but not before. Just my thoughts.

He's good but this isn't realistic IMO, especially single season records. I actually don't think he can catch Iginla or Theo for career Flame points, the former because of the vast number of games played and the latter because of PPG. Johnny would actually have to up his PPG and then play a total of 11 years here.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

So then why do people think it should be mandatory for players to sign with the team that drafts them?
All the draft does for a team is give them exclusive rights to sign and develop said player, there is no obligation on either side to put their name on paper if there is something they don’t like. Yes it sucks that the team has to invest time and money, but that is part of doing business.

For me, because that's their door to the NHL.

When a team calls your name, the door opens. If a team doesn't draft you, you have to find your way into the NHL via the Gio route or something similar. It's really really tough to do and no one's entitled to an NHL career. But I do think you should be obligated to the team and fans that drafted you.

I just think that to play in the NHL, your ELC involves playing for whatever team thinks they can make the best out of your career... and used one of their few selections to do so.

It's a part of business, it's his right, it happens, it'll happen again, the NHL doesn't treat the players well... all of this is true. I just don't get why this is the preference?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Split98

Isn't drafting someone showing faith in them becoming an NHL player on their team, and interest in their development?

And the pre-draft interviews are used to get an idea of where that player sees themselves, but I doubt a player like Fox was brazen enough to call his shots then. They probably had the mindset that this player would develop into a Flame if they were NHL calibre.

Should the NHLPA ask to scrap the draft while we're at it then? I don't get how as fans, we're happy with this situation. And it's not chronic, but it has happened twice to us now - and if Fox lives up to his potential that's a pretty good piece to our team that took the special route to his favourite team. What a well-earned distinction!

It's not so rampant that stats are going to show the issue, but good players your scouts and GM are piecing together occasionally having the option to peace out to another team sucks. Unless you enjoy all of that, as a fan... this is annoying. Considering the NHL is entertainment, things that get in the way of that should be considered.

Do you want to be an NHL player? Here's the route. You play for the team that chose to open that door for you.
Want to play for your favourite team? Finish your commitment to the team that drafted you, and if you're good enough to attract that teams attention... go earn a contract there.

Lots of jobs don't get to pick where they work, but they full-well know where the workplace could be before they sign up for the job. I have yet to meet a stay-at-home electrician.

Fox was considered the best play on the US NTDP and had 59 points in 64 games for them... its not like Calgary was being altruistic in drafting him. Some team would have based on his credentials...

the route you cite is the route the vast majority of players follow...only a small number of kids don't follow that route... But they are operating in the rules as they exist.

point in fact: Fox never signed up for anything except for Harvard.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's good but this isn't realistic IMO, especially single season records. I actually don't think he can catch Iginla or Theo for career Flame points, the former because of the vast number of games played and the latter because of PPG. Johnny would actually have to up his PPG and then play a total of 11 years here.

I am not sure what math you are using but he can easily do it if he signs an 8 year extension after this contract. He is probably going to average 80-100 points every year. It is not unrealistic at all to think if he plays here until 35 or 36 he owns every offensive Flames record.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

So then why do people think it should be mandatory for players to sign with the team that drafts them?
All the draft does for a team is give them exclusive rights to sign and develop said player, there is no obligation on either side to put their name on paper if there is something they don’t like. Yes it sucks that the team has to invest time and money, but that is part of doing business.

Why have a draft at all? Make every prospect a free agent.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not sure what math you are using but he can easily do it if he signs an 8 year extension after this contract. He is probably going to average 80-100 points every year. It is not unrealistic at all to think if he plays here until 35 or 36 he owns every offensive Flames record.

I was just looking at the total points for Iggy and Theo, and their PPG. Theo had a better PPG (as a Flame) than Johnny currently does. Iggy played at a high level his whole career here and for a looooong time.

Anyway, to your point, firstly there's a big difference between 80 and 100 points per year. And I don't think many players average that (especially up at the 100 mark) in their entire career if it goes to 35-36. If that happens, obviously that's wonderful. I also don't see much chance of an 8 year extension. Again, if so, I'm overjoyed to be wrong.

I imagine you didn't mean to include single season records, since there's no way he (or any player) gets 80s single season numbers unless the league goes to 60 minute 3 on 3 or something.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Fox was considered the best play on the US NTDP and had 59 points in 64 games for them... its not like Calgary was being altruistic in drafting him. Some team would have based on his credentials...

the route you cite is the route the vast majority of players follow...only a small number of kids don't follow that route... But they are operating in the rules as they exist.

point in fact: Fox never signed up for anything except for Harvard.

I don't disagree that Fox would have been drafted by someone. But I'm pretty sure that prospects sign up for the draft, no?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't disagree that Fox would have been drafted by someone. But I'm pretty sure that prospects sign up for the draft, no?

I think there used to be a requirement to opt in, but that it was removed some time ago.

[Geeoff]

I think it would be interesting if there were something akin to a qualifying offer for drafted rookies. Whereby, if you made an offer to a rookie, you retained their rights. May be problematic with the NCAA's rules? Or maybe a system where NCAA players have to declare their eligibility for the draft like NFL/NBA players?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I think it would be interesting if there were something akin to a qualifying offer for drafted rookies. Whereby, if you made an offer to a rookie, you retained their rights. May be problematic with the NCAA's rules? Or maybe a system where NCAA players have to declare their eligibility for the draft like NFL/NBA players?

there was some talk of that at the GM meetings this year... the management side would obviously want this... however, as it is in the CBA, it is not a unilateral decision. Lebrun speaks about it a bit here:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/lebrun-...icanes~1671565

NHLPA is interested in more player freedom, not less, so i doubt that they would be a willing partner in the PA...

i would guess that they keep the rule, but perhaps the signing team would have to give up a compensatory pick (value determined by the prospect quality) at minimum if a trade isn't worked out between the drafting team and the signing team

[goodyear]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And in this case i think its as simple as a hometown kid wanting to play at home and likely knew early that it was an option for him if he so chose.



Really no more and no less.

I would have been ok if Cale Makar wanted to play for his hometown team

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think there used to be a requirement to opt in, but that it was removed some time ago.

The only thing you can do is opt out of your first year of eligibility. At least I assume opting out is still a thing

[jessnuts]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Tom Fox

Adam Fix

[getbak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The only thing you can do is opt out of your first year of eligibility. At least I assume opting out is still a thing

I don't believe it is. So long as your 18th birthday is on or before September 15th, you can be drafted.