2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Nolan Patrick.

I have a feeling the package will include Patrick at the end of the day

I’ve never liked Nolan Patrick’s game personally. Even in the the 2017 prospect’s game I thought he looked pretty unremarkable for potential 1st overall pick. Thought Hischier was more dynamic. Actually thought Robert Thomas and Kailer Yamamoto had a better showing than Nolan Patrick.

Throw the migraine issues in a city like Calgary and I’d say the risk far outweighs the benefit. I’d look elsewhere for a potential Gaudreau trade.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah that's why there seems to be a fit. Both franchises have had "anything that can go wrong will" types of seasons. And both are at a stage where they were expecting to compete.

I would do a Konecky for Johnny deal. Not because it makes the Flames better per say but it resets the clock on the asset in a favorable way.


And if you can get say a Bobby Brink added - even better.

I don't know what's happened to Hart. I would have bet money on him being one of the more consistent number 1 tenders in the league.

To what end though? If the Flames reset the clock, they’d be receiving another complimentary piece to go along with all their other complimentary pieces. Then the Flames can stay in mediocrity for another 5 years.

I think Treliving and co will have to look at his team in the offseason with more intellectual honesty then he’s ever had to before. If he cannot make enough significant changes that’ll drastically improve this team, then rebuild. To continue this madness of building middling rosters is downright insanity.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’ve never liked Nolan Patrick’s game personally. Even in the the 2017 prospect’s game I thought he looked pretty unremarkable for potential 1st overall pick. Thought Hischier was more dynamic. Actually thought Robert Thomas and Kailer Yamamoto had a better showing than Nolan Patrick.

Throw the migraine issues in a city like Calgary and I’d say the risk far outweighs the benefit. I’d look elsewhere for a potential Gaudreau trade.

I saw Patrick plenty when he was in junior. He did have a great rookie year on a stacked Wheat Kings team. After that, injuries seemed to add up and he was never the same player. Invisible for long stretches in games. I was quite surprised the Flyers took him at 2nd overall.

[Harry Lime]

LA centre depth : Kopitar signed for 3 more years. Potential first line centres, Byfield, Turcotte, Valardi. Potential second line centres, Thomas, Madden, Anderson-Dolan. Potential third line centres, Kupari, Dudas, Lizotte.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

I saw Patrick plenty when he was in junior. He did have a great rookie year on a stacked Wheat Kings team. After that, injuries seemed to add up and he was never the same player. Invisible for long stretches in games. I was quite surprised the Flyers took him at 2nd overall.

I think the prospect’s game wouldn’t been prior to all this injuries though right? Regardless, I just remember watching that game for him and the Hischier hype and came away very underwhelmed by Patrick’s game. Didn’t do much that separated him from the pack. Don’t remember liking his mobility either. Figured he’d be as good as PLD was in the 2016 prospect’s game, but came out more impressed with Robert Thomas in the end somehow.

If the Flames go after Nolan Patrick, It’ll probably end up like another Curtis Lazar situation with our luck. I wouldn’t do it personally.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

To what end though? If the Flames reset the clock, they’d be receiving another complimentary piece to go along with all their other complimentary pieces. Then the Flames can stay in mediocrity for another 5 years.

I think Treliving and co will have to look at his team in the offseason with more intellectual honesty then he’s ever had to before. If he cannot make enough significant changes that’ll drastically improve this team, then rebuild. To continue this madness of building middling rosters is downright insanity.

Depends on what other options are available for Johnny. If there aren't great value deals then you reset the clock to retain the value on the asset.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Depends on what other options are available for Johnny. If there aren't great value deals then you reset the clock to retain the value on the asset.

I think if Gaudreau is being traded, I’d take picks and prospects over an inferior winger. This organization really needs transcend and start doing things differently. This perpetual asset management game seems to almost ensure the Flames are always good, but never good enough. Bad, but not bad enough to ever draft top 3.

If next season Flames look like another rendition of the 2010-2013 Flames, then this franchise can kiss their hopes of overcharging fans in the new arena goodbye because no one is over paying to watch that filth.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Ok that assumes teams are willing to trade high quality picks and prospects

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think if Gaudreau is being traded, I’d take picks and prospects over an inferior winger. This organization really needs transcend and start doing things differently. This perpetual asset management game seems to almost ensure the Flames are always good, but never good enough. Bad, but not bad enough to ever draft top 3.

If next season Flames look like another rendition of the 2010-2013 Flames, then this franchise can kiss their hopes of overcharging fans in the new arena goodbye because no one is over paying to watch that filth.

YOU may want to do that. It may even be the right move.

The problem here though is that it is extremely unlikely the organization moves in that direction.

Both Treliving and Sutter have two more years left on their deals after this one. Im not convinced that is merely coincidence.

They are not paying those two (a lot of money) to blow it up and rebuild...which is precisely what your deal would suggest.

They will deal Gaudreau and/or another core guy this summer... in a "hockey" trade.

Again, rightly or wrongly, this club will be looking to compete and get into the post season moving forward by retooling but a hard reset simply looks out of the question when you add it all up.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

YOU may want to do that. It may even be the right move.

The problem here though is that it is extremely unlikely the organization moves in that direction.

Both Treliving and Sutter have two more years left on their deals after this one. Im not convinced that is merely coincidence.

They are not paying those two (a lot of money) to blow it up and rebuild...which is precisely what your deal would suggest.

They will deal Gaudreau and/or another core guy this summer... in a "hockey" trade.

Again, rightly or wrongly, this club will be looking to compete and get into the post season moving forward by retooling but a hard reset simply looks out of the question when you add it all up.

This is precisely the problem. You have a front office set up to win now and a roster nowhere close. It’s the the problem with hiring Sutter in the first place IMO, and I love Darryl.

This organization has no business trying to ‘win now’ with this hole-filled roster and lack of foundational pieces.

More dark, mediocre times ahead until this ends up where it’s is painfully & obviously headed.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah that's why there seems to be a fit. Both franchises have had "anything that can go wrong will" types of seasons. And both are at a stage where they were expecting to compete.

I would do a Konecky for Johnny deal. Not because it makes the Flames better per say but it resets the clock on the asset in a favorable way.

And if you can get say a Bobby Brink added - even better.

I don't know what's happened to Hart. I would have bet money on him being one of the more consistent number 1 tenders in the league.

With all the crumbs that Friedman has left lately, and the reason you stated above I think Gaudreau is going there for Konecny and Nolan. There will be other pieces but that will be the basis.

[Royle9]

Pass on Patrick.

Could you imagine if the Flames drafted 2nd and took Patrick?
You think Bennett was bad/disappointment this would be 100x worse.

And now these same posters who hated Bennet want to include Patrick in a Johnny deal?
SMH... this would be a typical flames move that’s for sure.
Lazar 2.0 is right

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok that assumes teams are willing to trade high quality picks and prospects

In a flat cap world, I have a hard time seeing any organization giving up their grade A’s for a player like JG. Eichel? there’s a conversation worth having.

Lash summer I was advocating for a Gaudreau - Cozens swap. I had the opportunity to bounce that off a scout I know through family and he said he didn’t think Buffalo would do it. A player who can play a meaningful role on an ELC might be the highest value asset a team may have these days.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

LA centre depth : Kopitar signed for 3 more years. Potential first line centres, Byfield, Turcotte, Valardi. Potential second line centres, Thomas, Madden, Anderson-Dolan. Potential third line centres, Kupari, Dudas, Lizotte.

If LA stays slow and steady on the path they are on, I see them becoming a powerhouse.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TOfan

In a flat cap world, I have a hard time seeing any organization giving up their grade A’s for a player like JG. Eichel? there’s a conversation worth having.

Lash summer I was advocating for a Gaudreau - Cozens swap. I had the opportunity to bounce that off a scout I know through family and he said he didn’t think Buffalo would do it. A player who can play a meaningful role on an ELC might be the highest value asset a team may have these days.

Again though, to what end? If a Gaudreau and Cozens trade did occur, how would that have helped the Flames win now? Cozens comes in and scores a few goals for us and we end up missing the playoffs anyway, but no where near last place. By the time Cozens is in his prime, Lindholm, Hanifin and etc will be ready to move on and the Flames will have a prime Cozens on a now rebuilding team.

The timing just wouldn’t be right IMO. If we did trade for Cozens last season, then I think it would make more sense for him to come into a complete tear down.

[Classic_Sniper]

Let me add that I don’t mean to rain in on everyone’s parade because in a vacuum, a lot of these trade proposals look fine. But it’s like, from a big picture standpoint, are we trying to get better or are we trying to stay good? I have no interest in staying good unless there’s a clear and obvious path to becoming great.

For me, I think I’d be willing to burn futures if it can get us to great, but when the window has completely closed shut and it’s time to be bad, lets be really bad and get those McDavid’s and Matthew’s of the world.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Pass on Patrick.

Could you imagine if the Flames drafted 2nd and took Patrick?
You think Bennett was bad/disappointment this would be 100x worse.

And now these same posters who hated Bennet want to include Patrick in a Johnny deal?
SMH... this would be a typical flames move that’s for sure.
Lazar 2.0 is right

The interesting thing about Patrick to me is that his draft class is looking really strong. When a top pick busts (or even just disappoints), they typically aren't alone.


2012 - top 4 all disappoint, albeit Murray had injury issues (Yak, Galch, G Reinhart)

2014 - Drai is the only 'great' player of the top 7; Ekblad very good, Reinhart good, Sam TBD, and other disappointments 5-7

2011 - top 5 all very good players, Huberdeau the only who might be 'great'. 6-10 all close to great, though...

2010 - Hall, Seguin, Johansen, Skinner all pretty good (only flashes of great), but 3,5,6,8,9 mediocre

1999 - Sedins good, Stefan, Brendl, Finley, Beech = bad. Tim Connolly (5OA) and Pyatt (8) were the only other 500gp in the top 15.

1996 - Pretty disappointing 1-12. Chris Phillips had a very nice career, but certainly a below avg 1OA.

1994,95 - Similarly underwhelming top 4s (though some solid players).

Daigle in '93 is the most obvious time where a guy busted despite an otherwise great draft class. 500+ games 1-12 (including Daigle)


It's still uber early for 2019, but it's looking pretty weak top to bottom.

I don't think Patrick will ever be great, but will probably end up somewhere between Turris/Drouin/D Strome/Dumont/Legwand/Bonk...all top 3 picks who started slow but went on to have somewhat productive careers.

Originally Posted by TOfan

In a flat cap world, I have a hard time seeing any organization giving up their grade A’s for a player like JG. Eichel? there’s a conversation worth having.

Lash summer I was advocating for a Gaudreau - Cozens swap. I had the opportunity to bounce that off a scout I know through family and he said he didn’t think Buffalo would do it. A player who can play a meaningful role on an ELC might be the highest value asset a team may have these days.

I think 99% of teams would look at it the same way. BUF might have been one exception because they were so desperate to take a step forward, and weren't necessarily capped out (ie. ELC value not that big a deal).

The only other situation would be a team at the very, very end of a contention window (ie. PIT), who somehow still had cap space.

I think any trade would have involved more pieces on both sides.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok that assumes teams are willing to trade high quality picks and prospects

Just need to wait for Brad to get hired somewhere else...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Let me add that I don’t mean to rain in on everyone’s parade because in a vacuum, a lot of these trade proposals look fine. But it’s like, from a big picture standpoint, are we trying to get better or are we trying to stay good? I have no interest in staying good unless there’s a clear and obvious path to becoming great.

For me, I think I’d be willing to burn futures if it can get us to great, but when the window has completely closed shut and it’s time to be bad, lets be really bad and get those McDavid’s and Matthew’s of the world.

Sure but it’s not up to us
So many people are offering suggestions that are realistic

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Let me add that I don’t mean to rain in on everyone’s parade because in a vacuum, a lot of these trade proposals look fine. But it’s like, from a big picture standpoint, are we trying to get better or are we trying to stay good? I have no interest in staying good unless there’s a clear and obvious path to becoming great.

For me, I think I’d be willing to burn futures if it can get us to great, but when the window has completely closed shut and it’s time to be bad, lets be really bad and get those McDavid’s and Matthew’s of the world.

The time to be bad is now.

The 2022 and 2023 drafts are the years this team should do a targeted tank-job. Those years have players worth targeting. I really hope it’s the route this organization takes. I’m tired of them languishing around 16th overall.

This team as it is today is not “good”, and doesn’t have the players to trade in order to improve today’s roster without completely crippling the future (and the future is already bleak). To me, the only actual path forward if this team wants to reach contender status is a rebuild. The timing is right. The asset base we have today is right. Just do it.