2018 World Cup

[Beninho]

I blame Mourinho

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats pretty much how the international game is at the moment.

Anti-Football won Portugal a trophy.

Yeah it's always been more defensive for the smaller sides in international play but got really bad when Greece won Euro by playing the most defensive posture ever.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I blame Mourinho

We all do. We all do...

[Locke]

Come on you Croats! Dont let me down like those ne'erdowell Peruvians!

[Itse]

Greeces 2004 championship is way back and did not end up being the way the game is played, quite the opposite really.

Right after that in 2006 Italy won the championship being one of the only major countries playing with more than one striker, the other being Germany who finished third. France finished second with a team no-one would call defense oriented.

Then of course from 2008 to 2012 Spain won two Euro championships and the world cup with possibly the most dominant ball control game football has ever seen.

In 2014 Germany won, again lead by their dominant midfield / ball control.

...and frankly calling Portugals style "anti-football" is just silly. And this is coming from someone who would rather not see Ronaldo or Pepé (probably the reigning diving champion in football) ever win anything.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Itse

Greeces 2004 championship is way back and did not end up being the way the game is played, quite the opposite really.

Right after that in 2006 Italy won the championship being one of the only major countries playing with more than one striker, the other being Germany who finished third. France finished second with a team no-one would call defense oriented.

Then of course from 2008 to 2012 Spain won two Euro championships and the world cup with possibly the most dominant ball control game football has ever seen.

In 2014 Germany won, again lead by their dominant midfield / ball control.

...and frankly calling Portugals style "anti-football" is just silly. And this is coming from someone who would rather not see Ronaldo or Pepé (probably the reigning diving champion in football) ever win anything.

Really? Filibustering until penalties? What would you call it?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really? Filibustering until penalties? What would you call it?

LOL.

Portugal has had a total of 2 games go to penalties in a decade. If they're playing for penalties they're not very good at it

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Itse

Greeces 2004 championship is way back and did not end up being the way the game is played, quite the opposite really.

Right after that in 2006 Italy won the championship being one of the only major countries playing with more than one striker, the other being Germany who finished third. France finished second with a team no-one would call defense oriented.

Then of course from 2008 to 2012 Spain won two Euro championships and the world cup with possibly the most dominant ball control game football has ever seen.

In 2014 Germany won, again lead by their dominant midfield / ball control.

...and frankly calling Portugals style "anti-football" is just silly. And this is coming from someone who would rather not see Ronaldo or Pepé (probably the reigning diving champion in football) ever win anything.

It didn't change the way that big teams play but IMO it did change the way some of the smaller nations in the World Cup play.

I feel like smaller nations used to come out with much more of an attack minded focus and maybe the game would end up being 3-1 or 3-0 but the smaller nations would play positive football and still try to win.

But once Greece proved you could potentially actually win the title as a smaller country by parking the bus and playing a purely defensive shell I feel like the smaller nations did see that happen and have tried to emulate it to get deeper into tournaments.

Immediately after that 2004 Euro Cup both the 2006 and 2010 World cups had record low Goal Per Game stats.

[White Out 403]

To battle!

[SuperMatt18]

Argentina kills me...playing Meza in the front 3 with Messi and Aguero while Dybala sits on the bench.

Even if you do want Meza on the field then drop him deeper into the midfield where he has played before too and get Dybala up top.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Both goalkeepers have been a real adventure whenever the ball is near them. Terrible distributions

[White Out 403]

Unreal this is scoreless. Wow.

[White Out 403]

Terrible by Rebic. Persisic had nothing but space.

[Locke]

That was an interesting sequence of events, the Argentine coach needs to chill out or hes going to have a coronary.

This ref is screwing up pretty badly thus far.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

This game is nasty, Meza’s tackle in particular, not sure how he escaped without a card against the Croatian RB. On another day both teams could have been down a man. Ref is going to have to get this under control

[Mango]

Rebic needs to come off. Get Kramaric in there.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It didn't change the way that big teams play but IMO it did change the way some of the smaller nations in the World Cup play.

I feel like smaller nations used to come out with much more of an attack minded focus and maybe the game would end up being 3-1 or 3-0 but the smaller nations would play positive football and still try to win.

But once Greece proved you could potentially actually win the title as a smaller country by parking the bus and playing a purely defensive shell I feel like the smaller nations did see that happen.

Immediately after that 2004 Euro Cup both the 2006 and 2010 World cups had record low Goal Per Game stats.

True, but that was a while back now and 2014 saw a big rise in goals.

Also, a major contributing factor to the low numbers after 2008 was that Spain was the team to beat, and the favoured strategy to beat the unbeatable tiki-taka was all-out defense and counterattack. That experiment failed miserably for everyone, but it took a while before Brazil showed in the 2013 Confederations cup final that you can destroy the tiki-taka if you have enough skill and combine it with lethal speed. (A lesson Spain didn't learn themselves, leading to a quick exit in 2014.)

Since the Spanish dominance more teams have adopted some variation of high pressure and ball control, which is often countered with some variation of high-speed offense, leading to what I would consider a fairly entertaining period in soccer.

The underdog trying to play a low-scoring game has been a thing in soccer since forever of course, it's not like that's gone anywhere. (No different from hockey really.) However, when so many strong football nations now have focused on having strong midfields that like to pressure up high (the way Germany and Spain won championships), this often leaves smaller nations with no options. Quite often parking the bus isn't actually their game plan, but simply the result of getting hemmed in their own zone.

(You can see this dynamic more clearly when watching the pre-tournament qualification phase. You get more info on how each team likes to play and the info is easier to digest when there isn't three games per day every day )

All that said, intentionally giving up ball control and focusing on counters has always been one way to win in soccer. As a personal comment, I've always really appreciated the tactical side of the game, to the point that to me a team optimizing it strengths is always fascinating to watch, even if it's a very defensive style of play. I even liked the way Greece won.

Major caveat:
I am not a football expert and I only really qualify as a soccer fan by this boards standards

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

This game is nasty, Meza’s tackle in particular, not sure how he escaped without a card against the Croatian RB. On another day both teams could have been down a man. Ref is going to have to get this under control

I can't believe that wasn't a red. He tried to take off Vrsaljko's leg.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

This game is nasty, Meza’s tackle in particular, not sure how he escaped without a card against the Croatian RB. On another day both teams could have been down a man. Ref is going to have to get this under control

True enough, although I'm not totally cool with the yellow on Rebic, while he did make contact with the Argentinian it was while his back was turned and he was being shoved into him by another Argentinian, I know he was just called for a foul against Mercado, but Mercado had to have been going into that challenge knowing he was getting cleaned out.

[SuperMatt18]

I feel like these Croatia and Argentina teams are great examples of good rosters that underachieve due to their coaches tactics and squad selection errors.