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Old 04-15-2019, 11:34 PM   #1
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Default Avalanche 6 Flames 2 (Colorado Leads Series 2-1)

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Avalanche 6 Flames 2

Avalanche Lead Series 6-2

That as fun!

No need for summary.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:47 AM   #2
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The problem isn't the quickness of the Avs players. Its that the flames are playing slow and letting the Avs play fast. Playing fast isn't really speed of the players. It's four components:

(1) Quick transitions
(2) Tape to tape passes
(3) Direction of play (North-South) vs (East-West)
(4) Skating fast

The flames look slow and the Avs look fast because:

(1) Avs are breaking up the flames North-South passing and transitioning up ice quickly with numbers
(2) Avs are clogging up the center of the ice and are forcing the flames to dump pucks in
(3) Flames are not on the ball - bad pinches, terrible turnovers in vulnerable spots
(4) Flames first line is playing like dog ####

Whats the answer?
(1) Coaching - Flames has to respond to what the Avs are doing. If the Avs are scoring on transition, then flames need to play more passive and have the center play more defensively. The flames have to play more patient. Slow down the Avs - don't let them transition by ensuring a tighter gap between offence-defence by having a less aggressive offence. Clog up the neutral zone to limit the ability for Avs to go North-South

(2) Players have to dial in - Stop making mistakes. Play with more intensity. Play with more focus.


Come on guys - this isn't rocket science why the Avs looks so good. The Avs didn't turn into the Harlem Globetrotters. The answers for the flames are within the room and Avs are solvable.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:08 AM   #3
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Just got back from that abysmal game.

I agree with GullFoss, "Flames has to respond to what the Avs are doing. If the Avs are scoring on transition, then flames need to play more passive and have the center play more defensively. The flames have to play more patient. Slow down the Avs - don't let them transition by ensuring a tighter gap between offence-defence by having a less aggressive offence. Clog up the neutral zone to limit the ability for Avs to go North-South".

What I can't understand is that Peters and the entire coaching staff didn't see this in game 2, because clearly they did not make the necessary adjustments before tonight's tilt.

Either that or the players did not execute.

Second point is also valid, but there were many players lacking effort as well as intensity.

The Avs have 2 clear tactics for Johnny: slashes and also making him turtle because they keep playing him physically. Everyone on the Avs is pushing him every chance they get and he is not the same player, it's in his head or at least it was tonight.

Need to pull it together and quickly or it's over.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:48 AM   #4
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J
The Avs have 2 clear tactics for Johnny: slashes and also making him turtle because they keep playing him physically. Everyone on the Avs is pushing him every chance they get and he is not the same players, it's in his head or at least it was tonight.

Need to pull it together and quickly or it's over.
Welcome to playoff hockey.

If a player can't overcome the closer scrutiny star players get in the playoffs, he'll never excel in the playoffs.

McKinnon obviously figured it out.

It's up to Johnny to do the same.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:51 AM   #5
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I don't want to blame officiating for the Flames being down 2-1 in this series as they haven't played well but I feel the officiating in this series has been different than some of the other series. Some of the other series they are letting them play but in this series everything is being called and you can see some biases in the Gaudreau unsportsmanlike call in game two. That was not a dive but the official had it in his head that Gaudreau is a diver and was waiting to call that penalty on him. It's pretty rare to see a full 2 minute 5 on 3 but with one official already with his hands up for a too many men penalty the other decided that a marginal hook warranted the Flames being down by two men. After the inevitable 1-0 Avalanche lead Hathaway is full marks for a bad holding penalty which leads to 2-0 and then things snowballed and it was just going to be one of those games. The good thing is that in the playoffs the only thing matters is the result so you can argue getting blown out is a bigger wake-up call than losing another game like game two where they didn't play well but the game was close enough where they could fool themselves into thinking they are close. They haven't been close as there's a massive disparity between effort levels and intensity between these two teams and that has to change in game four.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:33 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by GullFoss View Post
The problem isn't the quickness of the Avs players. .
Disagree entirely.

The reason the Flames look so slow is because the Avs are playing at a completely different pace. Its why a lot of the penalties are happening. Its also why we are seeing such brutal gap control from the defense...they have to back in quickly when the Avs are transitioning, which leads to lots of space in the middle of the ice,) which leads to shot after shot right down main street or wide open looks from just off the boards. The forwards on the Flames played abysmal defense last night....56 shots against tells you everything in that regard.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by GullFoss View Post
The problem isn't the quickness of the Avs players. Its that the flames are playing slow and letting the Avs play fast. Playing fast isn't really speed of the players. It's four components:

(1) Quick transitions
(2) Tape to tape passes
(3) Direction of play (North-South) vs (East-West)
(4) Skating fast

The flames look slow and the Avs look fast because:

(1) Avs are breaking up the flames North-South passing and transitioning up ice quickly with numbers
(2) Avs are clogging up the center of the ice and are forcing the flames to dump pucks in
(3) Flames are not on the ball - bad pinches, terrible turnovers in vulnerable spots
(4) Flames first line is playing like dog ####

Whats the answer?
(1) Coaching - Flames has to respond to what the Avs are doing. If the Avs are scoring on transition, then flames need to play more passive and have the center play more defensively. The flames have to play more patient. Slow down the Avs - don't let them transition by ensuring a tighter gap between offence-defence by having a less aggressive offence. Clog up the neutral zone to limit the ability for Avs to go North-South

(2) Players have to dial in - Stop making mistakes. Play with more intensity. Play with more focus.


Come on guys - this isn't rocket science why the Avs looks so good. The Avs didn't turn into the Harlem Globetrotters. The answers for the flames are within the room and Avs are solvable.

The Flames regularly looked as good and as fast as the Avs are during the regular season, particularly pre-ASG, so I agree it’s not that the Flames are inherently slow. They need to make a big adjustment to their system and somehow regain some confidence. Peters will earn his salary or not in the next couple of days....
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
Welcome to playoff hockey.



If a player can't overcome the closer scrutiny star players get in the playoffs, he'll never excel in the playoffs.



McKinnon obviously figured it out.



It's up to Johnny to do the same.
Not making excuses for him or anyone, just stating what I see.

Johnny has made no positive adjustments. Neither have the coaching staff.

When you don't make adjustments in strategy or the tactical parts of the game and clearly Colorado has, the result is pretty much inevitable.

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Old 04-16-2019, 08:16 AM   #9
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Knock TJ down to 3rd line or the press box.

Kid is a liability AT BEST. Scoring a goal doesn't undo all the damage he's done in games 2/3.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:16 AM   #10
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Johnny is lucky he's not getting called for being Ogie Oglethorpe Jr every time someone roughs him up a little bit. He like...chases them down and whacks at them and hooks them multiple times before peeling off for a line change
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss View Post
The problem isn't the quickness of the Avs players. Its that the flames are playing slow and letting the Avs play fast. Playing fast isn't really speed of the players. It's four components:

(1) Quick transitions
(2) Tape to tape passes
(3) Direction of play (North-South) vs (East-West)
(4) Skating fast

The flames look slow and the Avs look fast because:

(1) Avs are breaking up the flames North-South passing and transitioning up ice quickly with numbers
(2) Avs are clogging up the center of the ice and are forcing the flames to dump pucks in
(3) Flames are not on the ball - bad pinches, terrible turnovers in vulnerable spots
(4) Flames first line is playing like dog ####

Whats the answer?
(1) Coaching - Flames has to respond to what the Avs are doing. If the Avs are scoring on transition, then flames need to play more passive and have the center play more defensively. The flames have to play more patient. Slow down the Avs - don't let them transition by ensuring a tighter gap between offence-defence by having a less aggressive offence. Clog up the neutral zone to limit the ability for Avs to go North-South

(2) Players have to dial in - Stop making mistakes. Play with more intensity. Play with more focus.


Come on guys - this isn't rocket science why the Avs looks so good. The Avs didn't turn into the Harlem Globetrotters. The answers for the flames are within the room and Avs are solvable.
Completely agree. The Avs are clogging up the middle and forcing the Flames to dump pucks in, so why aren't we doing the same thing? The Flames scored the most shorthanded goals this season by sitting 4 guys at the blue line and feasting off of turnovers. Why not do the same thing in the neutral zone?

Matt Nieto or JT Compher want to rip through all 3 zones with speed? Not unless they go through a wall of players first. Turn the puck over, counter with an odd man rush that way. It won't be pretty, but at least Mike Smith and the defense won't be completely overwhelmed on every Avs rush. At this point, I don't even care if it's entertaining, we're not losing to the worst seeded team in the playoffs in 5.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:40 AM   #12
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I know we're not blaming the refs, but this game went off the rails on the backs of officiating IMO. Weak call, paired with a bonus 5 on 3 I can't recall ever happening... and the game was over.

The blame lies with the players. A 5 on 3 resulting in 1-0 shouldn't be a back-breaker. But the Flames dug a hole and waited for the clock to run down. Any hope we had of rebounding evaporated along with Hathaway's weak 'holding' call.

Everyone but a handful needs to be better (incl the garbage refs)
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:55 AM   #13
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the flames could have been on the powerplay all night and still gotten manhandled 3-1

that was an ugly game
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #14
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It could always be worse... we could be like Tampa Bay and down 0-3....
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:18 AM   #15
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I don't think I've ever seen a team in the playoffs get manhandled the way we are. I would have hope, but there is such a massive chasm between us and the Avs right now that a mercy kill is the only thing that feels appropriate.

That game yesterday was embarrassing. Neal and Monahan look like they are skating in mud. Our defence is getting walked multiple times a game. Defensive zone breakdowns multiple times a period. Odd man rushes multiple times a period. They are scared of MacKinnon.

It is a massacre.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:19 AM   #16
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I don't think I've ever seen a team in the playoffs get manhandled the way we are. I would have hope, but there is such a massive chasm between us and the Avs right now that a mercy kill is the only thing that feels appropriate.

That game yesterday was embarrassing. Neal and Monahan look like they are skating in mud. Our defence is getting walked multiple times a game. Defensive zone breakdowns multiple times a period. Odd man rushes multiple times a period. They are scared of MacKinnon.

It is a massacre.
The 2007 Flames were manhandled worse than this against the Red Wings but at least in that series the Flames were the underdogs and not the conference champs.

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:23 AM   #17
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Can you be manhandled worse than what we saw last night?
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:28 AM   #18
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Its really troubling how they lost last night. It wasn't a hard fought game decided by inches. It was embarrassing.

I actually have full confidence that they reset and be ready for game 4. Im not buying any of these grandiose narratives that these players don't have what it takes. Those things aren't pre ordained. You write your own story.

I think 2 things need to happen for the tide to turn.

1. The Flames need to dig deep, look in the mirror and decide how much they want this. That much is obvious.

2. They need a break of some sort. A bounce a 5on3 gift. Anything. I am a believer that you "make your own bounces" and so far they don't deserve any, but it seems like very few breaks have gone their way.

Also, to add. I think that is the most broken sticks on a penalty kill in a stretch of games I have ever seen. Big gable by Lindholm and it bit them in the arse.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:35 AM   #19
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Whats the answer?
(1) Coaching - Flames has to respond to what the Avs are doing. If the Avs are scoring on transition, then flames need to play more passive and have the center play more defensively. The flames have to play more patient. Slow down the Avs - don't let them transition by ensuring a tighter gap between offence-defence by having a less aggressive offence. Clog up the neutral zone to limit the ability for Avs to go North-South

(2) Players have to dial in - Stop making mistakes. Play with more intensity. Play with more focus.


Come on guys - this isn't rocket science why the Avs looks so good. The Avs didn't turn into the Harlem Globetrotters. The answers for the flames are within the room and Avs are solvable.
I agree with your observations, but not entirely with your answer. To me, the problem is that the Flames are trying too hard to “respond”, to both the Avs and the situation. I think they let it get in their heads that the playoffs require more gritty and physical play. The problem is they’re not those things - these Flames are fast and skilled. If you take a skill player and tell him (or if he tells himself) that he needs to play physical, he’s going to be lost and slow on the ice because instead of just playing his game, he’s overthinking everything. Elite athletes should not really be thinking about their game while they play it - they should react instinctively.

I also think that the times they’ve looked best in the series (second half of game 1 and overtime in game 2) they managed to get back to their skill and speed game, and they largely took over the game when they did.

To me, if they can get back to playing their game (which got them second place overall), they can get back in the series. If they keep trying to play this “playoff style” hockey, they’re toast.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by GullFoss View Post
The problem isn't the quickness of the Avs players. Its that the flames are playing slow and letting the Avs play fast. Playing fast isn't really speed of the players. It's four components:

(1) Quick transitions
(2) Tape to tape passes
(3) Direction of play (North-South) vs (East-West)
(4) Skating fast

The flames look slow and the Avs look fast because:

(1) Avs are breaking up the flames North-South passing and transitioning up ice quickly with numbers
(2) Avs are clogging up the center of the ice and are forcing the flames to dump pucks in
(3) Flames are not on the ball - bad pinches, terrible turnovers in vulnerable spots
(4) Flames first line is playing like dog ####

Whats the answer?
(1) Coaching - Flames has to respond to what the Avs are doing. If the Avs are scoring on transition, then flames need to play more passive and have the center play more defensively. The flames have to play more patient. Slow down the Avs - don't let them transition by ensuring a tighter gap between offence-defence by having a less aggressive offence. Clog up the neutral zone to limit the ability for Avs to go North-South

(2) Players have to dial in - Stop making mistakes. Play with more intensity. Play with more focus.


Come on guys - this isn't rocket science why the Avs looks so good. The Avs didn't turn into the Harlem Globetrotters. The answers for the flames are within the room and Avs are solvable.
Agree - in yesterday's game, it was absurd how much room the Avs had on the numerous 3 on 2's that they had entering the zone. I think this can be partially explained by the D backing off more so that they wouldn't get burned wide by MacKinnon on the outside like they did in previous games, but this gave the Avs way more room to pass it around once they entered the offensive zone. Calgary's forwards need to be way more engaged on the backcheck to take away that space.

From what I saw, it was not only Colorado breaking up the N-S passing from Calgary, but the E-W pass attempts by Calgary (predominantly Johnny) that occurred shortly after Calgary gained the zone. There were at least a half dozen times where Johnny would gain the blue line, button hook back and look for the pass across the ice, but Colorado would intercept and then they would be on an odd man rush with speed in the other direction. No doubt, tighter execution would allow Gaudreau to thread a few passes through like he did often in the regular season - but every miss is going to be costly. I wonder if it would be better if he carried the puck in deeper out wide before looking for a pass - I guess the trouble is that he isn't fast enough to outrun the D consistently enough to prevent getting rubbed out on the boards. Carrying the puck up through the middle hasn't worked well for him either as he kept trying to fight his way through 3 or 4 defenders and getting stripped of the puck. Lindholm has proven tenacious in the past in digging out pucks along the boards - he needs to get back to his earlier season form on that so that it's not all on Johnny to manage possession in the offensive zone.
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