Can the Flames win a cup with Johnny Hockey as the man ?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Tampa fans are crushing Stamkos’ right now and questioning his leadership and playoff performances lately. That’s what all fans do when they lose, they beat down on their star players.

Canada is the worst at that which is why Canadian teams are always on No Trade Lists.


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Sure, moron fans will act like morons.

If the last time Gaudreau was in the playoffs he scored 16 points in 17 games and the team made it to the third round, I'd say people questioning Gaudreau were idiots too.

If that was 2 years removed from scoring 18 points in 26 games and losing in the Finals, boy would those people be idiots.

When the stat line reads 3 points in his last 8 games, no conference finals appearances, it's not idiot fans whining. It's legitimate criticism and concern.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by blender

Oversimplification IMO.
By that standard most of the league is at a disadvantage.
Your list of great centers doesn't have a cup winner other than Kuznetsov, and the past winners list is basically 4 guys.
Also, Crosby and Malkin were swept this year, Staal and Getzlaf have only won once.
I get your point that Monahan may not be a good enough pivot to lead Calgary to the promised land. I don't disagree. But your argument just doesn't hold enough value for me. Hockey is too much of a team game.

Okay... but reverse the argument - show me a recent Cup winning team with a really mediocre 1c, like, a reliable guy but maybe not fast. Or maybe a guy who has a good shot but who isn't real dynamic.

I think it's a problem, and I think the problem is that Monahan isn't good enough to power a top line through the playoffs.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by blender

Oversimplification IMO.

By that standard most of the league is at a disadvantage.

Your list of great centers doesn't have a cup winner other than Kuznetsov, and the past winners list is basically 4 guys.

Also, Crosby and Malkin were swept this year, Staal and Getzlaf have only won once.

I get your point that Monahan may not be a good enough pivot to lead Calgary to the promised land. I don't disagree. But your argument just doesn't hold enough value for me. Hockey is too much of a team game.

The short list of centers I provided were the ones that have stood out to me so far in the 1st round. They’re all young still and haven’t written their complete stories yet.

Hockey is definitely a team game. But I’m also not going to list every roster player that won along with them. My main point was about generally needing legitimate #1 centers to go deep in the playoffs and I think it holds weight.

As for Malkin and Crosby, yeah they were swept by a hungrier squad. But I think the 6 Championship rings between them can buy them a little slack. You can’t win it every year.



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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sure, moron fans will act like morons.



If the last time Gaudreau was in the playoffs he scored 16 points in 17 games and the team made it to the third round, I'd say people questioning Gaudreau were idiots too.



If that was 2 years removed from scoring 18 points in 26 games and losing in the Finals, boy would those people be idiots.



When the stat line reads 3 points in his last 8 games, no conference finals appearances, it's not idiot fans whining. It's legitimate criticism and concern.

I’m not saying the fans are in the right. Their standards are sky high and probably unreasonable. But I was just pointing out that a lot of fans in Tampa are indeed souring on him. There’s like pages upon upon pages of Stamkos bashing.

Heck I would love Stamkos on our team. Finally a player with a legitimate one timer on this team. Absolutely take that in a heartbeat.


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[blender]

Classic Sniper, you do have a fair point. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree. I just feel there is more to it than the 1C position alone.
What is without a doubt is that your best players need to be playing well. No question about that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The short list of centers I provided were the ones that have stood out to me so far in the 1st round. They’re all young still and haven’t written their complete stories yet.

Hockey is definitely a team game. But I’m also not going to list every roster player that won along with them. My main point was about generally needing legitimate #1 centers to go deep in the playoffs and I think it holds weight.

As for Malkin and Crosby, yeah they were swept by a hungrier squad. But I think the 6 Championship rings between them can buy them a little slack. You can’t win it every year.



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Exactly. The Flames are supposed to be the hungry team who is looking to seize an opportunity.

[Classic_Sniper]

Gaudreau was pretty darn bad for most of the series, especially games 3 and 4. He did show some willingness to backcheck at the very least and he was probably the only player on this team could keep up with the Avalanche pace.

But to me, the most telling thing was game 5. That was far and away his best game of the playoffs as he looked engaged, created a lot of chances and looked fast.

I also don’t think it was a coincidence that he was at his best because he actually had more time and space last night than any other game. For whatever reason, Colorado’s backcheck wasn’t nearly as intense or as relentless as the first 4 games. Maybe it was because they knew they had the series wrapped up and they didn’t feel the need to skate as hard and put up 50 shots again.

But either way, that game did at least convinced me that when Gaudreau plays in a game or a series where the speed factor is a wash, then he can be a big factor. But in a series where the opposition has an extreme speed advantage, he looks pedestrian as heck.


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