2025 NHL Draft Thread

[Jiri Hrdina]

Who was that Russian player a few years ago that dropped. Uber talented but real red flags. Name began with K. Seems like that might be the closest comparison.

Edit: Kirill Kabanov. That's the guy. Eventually dropped all the way to the 3rd

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Who was that Russian player a few years ago that dropped. Uber talented but real red flags. Name began with K. Seems like that might be the closest comparison.

Edit: Kirill Kabanov. That's the guy. Eventually dropped all the way to the 3rd

A few years ago?!!? Wasnt that like a decade ago...

*googles*

Kirill Kabanov is now 32, career began in 2010... so... 15 years ago. I'm old.

I turned Kabanov into a HOFer in a EA game though. Actually may have been a 2k game.

[Ped]

No data to back it up, but my memory tells me that guys that start to drop a lot, usually don't end up making an impact. Adam Colagiacomo, Angelo Exposito, Nick Ebert, etc. Even guys like Kylington and Liljegren. Of course, it's possible people tend to remember those rather than many some that did end up at least contributing.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Whether or not he's the guy to take that homerun swing on, I absolutely agree that, with 2 late 1sts, you have to use at least one of them taking a swing for the fences.

This is fair too - and his USHL production needs to improve to even be able to call it a home run swing.

But it's the type of pick I want them to make with one of the two first. Don't pick a safe player, need to take a little risk.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Ped

No data to back it up, but my memory tells me that guys that start to drop a lot, usually don't end up making an impact. Adam Colagiacomo, Angelo Exposito, Nick Ebert, etc. Even guys like Kylington and Liljegren. Of course, it's possible people tend to remember those rather than many some that did end up at least contributing.

Brayden Point, Kucherov, Kuznetsov are opposite examples that come to mind without much thought. But it's fair, the experts are experts for a reason, so if they see something concerning that won't translate it's a good bet that is true.

[Ped]

Sorry, are you saying they are examples of players that fell but turned out great? Kucherov was ranked 17th amongst European Skaters, so 58 isn't far off. Point was ranked 31st, so he did drop, but my point was more toward players that at one point were considered top 10 prospects. Ebert, for example, started out the year #1, iirc.

[HighLifeMan]

Ryabkin is very interesting player, and to me is a no brainer to take a chance on should he be available. It can't be easy playing in four different leagues during your draft year.

I'd argue he easily had a far better d-1 year than McQueen did, and doesn't come with the injury risks, and despite that McQueen still holds firmly in the top 10 in rankings. Granted Ryabkin isn't six foot five, but he plays a very physical and assertive game.

He out produced Chernyshov on the same team last year, despite being a year and a half younger, and look at the start he's having in the OHL.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ped

Sorry, are you saying they are examples of players that fell but turned out great? Kucherov was ranked 17th amongst European Skaters, so 58 isn't far off. Point was ranked 31st, so he did drop, but my point was more toward players that at one point were considered top 10 prospects. Ebert, for example, started out the year #1, iirc.

Angelo Esposito, Oliver Kylington, Fowler, Chychrun, Grigorenko, Aatu Raty, Brad Lambert

Those guys are recent examples talked about as top 5 picks in their Draft-1 that fell in their draft year.

Nobody has really gotten an absolute steal in these cases, which Chychrun probably being the best of the bunch so far.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ped

Sorry, are you saying they are examples of players that fell but turned out great? Kucherov was ranked 17th amongst European Skaters, so 58 isn't far off. Point was ranked 31st, so he did drop, but my point was more toward players that at one point were considered top 10 prospects. Ebert, for example, started out the year #1, iirc.

Fowler is a good example. Was supposed to go at the top of the draft and dropped to 12. Not huge but way later than expected. Probably would go top 3 in a re-draft

At some point the potential of those guys outweighs the concerns and they go. But my general instincts would be the same as you - that "fallers" generally don't work out well.

I might be wrong though.

[devo22]

Aron Kiviharju was considered a top 5 prospect a year or two before the draft, then fell all the way to the 4th round last year. We'll see how he pans out ... would have loved for the Flames to take a flyer on him somewhere in the 3rd or 4th.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Ryabkin is very interesting player, and to me is a no brainer to take a chance on should he be available. It can't be easy playing in four different leagues during your draft year.

I'd argue he easily had a far better d-1 year than McQueen did, and doesn't come with the injury risks, and despite that McQueen still holds firmly in the top 10 in rankings. Granted Ryabkin isn't six foot five, but he plays a very physical and assertive game.

He out produced Chernyshov on the same team last year, despite being a year and a half younger, and look at the start he's having in the OHL.

His attitude risks are as serious as mqeens physical ones. If mqueen fomes back and takes off for what's left if the season he is gone top ten probably top five.

Highly skilled average size centers with severe attitude issues isnt going to get tromped on most draft lists by a giant great skating natural center with no attitude problems. Connely was top ten skill dropped. The person matters not just the skill.

If i had the choice mcqueen all the way.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Fan69

His attitude risks are as serious as mqeens physical ones. If mqueen fomes back and takes off for what's left if the season he is gone top ten probably top five.

Highly skilled average size centers with severe attitude issues isnt going to get tromped on most draft lists by a giant great skating natural center with no attitude problems. Connely was top ten skill dropped. The person matters not just the skill.

If i had the choice mcqueen all the way.

What suggests he has "severe" attitude issues though?

From what I can gather he was simply upset with his playing situation, which none of us can exactly speak to. The Russian leagues don't exactly treat their young stars whom show a desire to go to north america in the near future all that fairly. Ryabkin, Demidov, and Michkov all got dinked around to some degree during there draft years. I don't see how that it similar to what Connelly did.

I too would take McQueen at this rate, but I don't think it's feasible that 15+ NHL teams pass on a 6'5 center with skill.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

What suggests he has "severe" attitude issues though?

From what I can gather he was simply upset with his playing situation, which none of us can exactly speak to. The Russian leagues don't exactly treat their young stars whom show a desire to go to north america in the near future all that fairly. Ryabkin, Demidov, and Michkov all got dinked around to some degree during there draft years.

I too would take McQueen at this rate, but I don't think it's feasible that 15+ NHL teams pass on a 6'5 center with skill.

I have heard its deeper than that. Now dont get me wrong if flames scouts say they can work with him and the attitude is circumstantial then by all means especially if its in the twenties.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Fan69

I have heard its deeper than that. Now dont get me wrong if flames scouts say they can work with him and the attitude is circumstantial then by all means especially if its in the twenties.

Fair enough. I to trust this scouting staff to do the work needed in these scenarios.

[Calgary4LIfe]

2015 is a great example. Rasmus Andersson and Oliver Kylington were both ranked in the top 10 entering the season (3rd I think for Kylington, and 8th or 9th for Andersson) on some lists. They both fell to the 2nd round. While I don't think that Rasmus would be in the top 10 of a redraft (that year was really good), he isn't far from it. Kylington gets a bump in my opinion too, but probably to the middle of the 2nd round (drafted 60th, but I would rank him in the late 40's to mid 50's I think). So sometimes they really work out, and sometimes they don't.



This past draft saw Calgary take a number of guys who fell. So far, it seems to be paying off, but still too early too tell, even if I am very optimistic when it comes to that draft class.



I haven't watched Ryabkin nearly enough to make up my mind either way. The Flames do have the draft capital to 'take gambles' on players, so maybe if Ryabkin falls, it would be a good gamble to take. I actually don't prescribe to that train of thought at all, however - Flames need to just rank players and pick off their list, regardless of how much draft capital they have.


It does bring up an interesting conundrum of sorts - When a team like the Flames have more draft capital, it is widely seen as having the ammunition to "take more gambles" in the draft. I wonder if this actually does happen, or if teams just do continue to work off their ordered list, period.


Conversely, when a team doesn't have a good pool of prospects and has a reduced number of draft picks, do they pick more conservatively? More "High floor, but lower ceiling" types? Or should those teams swing for the fences even more?



I just think that the Flames should just continue doing what they are doing, as it seems to be bringing in both types of prospects over the years.



I appreciate Sandman's summaries on Ryabkin, as it saves myself time from looking it up myself. He is one of the more interesting storylines for the draft considering his preseason rankings, and how disappointing things went for him in Russia (for whatever reasons) that he decided to come over to North America in the middle of his draft year. That's a big gamble to take, so I imagine things must have been going badly enough outside of his performance for him to do that. Definitely a kid who everyone is keeping an eye on intensively given his talent level.

[YyjFlames]

Henry Mews was ranked 16 in Mckenzie's pre-season rankings last year. He had him at 48 in his June pre-draft list. He fell all the way to 74. Kid looks like a steal so far this year.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Henry Mews was ranked 16 in Mckenzie's pre-season rankings last year. He had him at 48 in his June pre-draft list. He fell all the way to 74. Kid looks like a steal so far this year.

Imo we can likely use one of he or Bzru as a trading chip.because of his big season.

[Sandman]

Someone posted an article where some NHL GM's were analyzing various teams 2024 Draft picks, and one of them said that he liked our picks, but said something along the lines that we picked a few kids with attitude problems. I can't help but think that the players he was talking about were Mews and Misa, which would explain why both slipped so far....

If true, it shows Conroy is willing to pick players with perceived attitude problems, so if Ryabkin falls to us, I could see him in Flames gear.

[Sandman]

Draft Thoughts (Swedish Edition, Vol. 15):

LD Malte Vass (6'1",179lbs)
Farjestad (J20): 31gp/ 2g/ 7a/ 9pts, -2, 47 PIM

D Malte Vass knows who he is- a hard-nosed defensive D who is tasked with shutting down the opposing team's best players, and he does so with unrelenting physicality. He was a standout for Team Sweden in last summer's Hlinka-Gretzky Cup (2 points in 5 games), and showed well in December's WJAC (1 point in 5 games), gaining plenty of fans in the scouting community along the way; McKenzie has him ranked # 46, Button has him at # 59, and Central Scouting ranks him as # 36 for EU Skaters, just to name a few. He wears an "A" for Farjestad, which is an indication of his leadership capabilities, and been rewarded for his efforts on that team with 3 games in the SHL. Vass is a solid defensive contributor with high awareness in his own zone, and immaculate positioning who takes opportunities away from opponents with a keen knowledge of angling. He defends his net with vigor and a mean streak, scans thoroughly to identify threats, and applies an active, well-timed stick to poke pucks away. His instincts in defensive situations are well-honed, and he reads the play quite well.

As mentioned, Vass executes a robust physical style, and hits early and often, many of those hits being of the thunderous variety. He shows impeccable timing, and carries a menacing presence with him, every time he sets foot on the ice. He's exceedingly difficult to play against, and drives opponents nuts with how edgy and mean he can be. His tenacity wins him battles in the trenches, and he has the kind of workrate and motor that allows him to be a minute-munching workhorse. He's a leader for his team with his sky-high compete, intensity, and responsible game. Vass always appears calm and composed, showing reliability in making clean retrievals, and though he isn't mistake-free (like most of his peers), he usually makes sound decisions when performing breakouts. When there is a misplay, it's usually not catastrophic, and mostly easy to recover from. There is not a lot of flash in his game, and he's not dynamic in any way, but he displays reasonably good puck-skill. His handling is nothing special, but he protects quite well, and doesn't show any issues with his puck-management. Mobility-wise, his skating is average, perhaps a step above, but his mechanics look smooth and fluid. His passing ability is good enough to make him a positive contributor in transition, with crisp, accurate feeds through the neutral zone.

In the offensive zone, Vass keeps his play with the puck as simple and risk-free as possible. He distributes from the line, but doesn't activate much, and can get shots through to the net fairly consistently to create chances for teammates. He will likely never be a significant offensive contributor though. He can be guilty of getting caught running around defensively sometimes, and he can take himself out of position looking for a big hit- he has to learn control. Vass is considered to be a safe pick, but he doesn't have a very high ceiling- he's looking like a bottom-pairing shutdown D. Look for him in the 3rd-round.

[Sandman]

Draft Thoughts (Swedish Edition, Vol. 16):

LW/C Oscar Davidsson (6'1",187lbs)
HV71 (J20): 34gp/ 14g/ 23a/ 37pts, +8, 34 PIM

Oscar Davidsson, who is one of the older players available in this draft-class with a Sept.25th, 2006 birthday, is a two-way power-forward with a hard-nosed approach and a high IQ. He is ranked #98 by Central Scouting for EU Players, and has played 13 games this season with HV71's SHL club. Davidsson has a physical presence on the ice and is a load to try to handle down low; he's competitive and intense, with a high work-ethic. He is a faceoff ace who is reliable in his own end, with a good compete level and a high activity rate. He displays uncanny awareness in defensive situations, taking away the middle of the ice from attackers, and wielding a highly disruptive stick, along with spotless positioning. He applies defensive tactics in the neutral zone as well, reading his opponents with his sharp instincts to kill plays, pick off passes, block lanes, and be generally disruptive.

Davidsson slithers into space in the offensive zone to present himself as a passing option in high-danger. He goes to the net hard, and wades in-and-out of the slot, waiting to pounce on loose pucks- and he has soft hands in-tight to beat goalies 1-on-1, along with good hand-eye coordination for tips. Davidsson is an excellent passer who funnels pucks to the slot, and finds teammates in high-danger, but does so without flashiness. He's smart, and displays top-notch vision and awareness in making dangerous plays, but keeps things rather simple- he feeds off of his teammates, rather than being a play-driver. His head is always on a swivel to pre-scan his surroundings. On the forecheck, he applies pressure to puck-carriers, and is disruptive with his stick, and his long reach. He doesn't seem to hold on to the puck for too long, and will choose the give-and-go option most often in transition, skating mostly straight-line routes. Davidsson is an excellent skater, with above-average mobility, but he isn't a speed-demon; he has an explosive burst when needed, and good acceleration, but his top-speed could use some work. He isn't getting the most out of his stride, as he's a little upright in his posture, and a bit stiff- he could use some work on his form, although he's well-balanced and reasonably agile. When he gets his mechanics figured out, his speed will most-likely become a strength. His puck-skill is surprisingly well-developed, and he protects very well while fending off checkers, with the ability to maintain control through checks.

Despite his excellent production this season, age is working against Davidsson somewhat, as he was only a few weeks away from being drafted in 2024. This makes him a little hard to project; I'm not so sure he's ever going to be suited to top-six duty in the NHL, if he were to make it. I would say his absolute ceiling is that of a middle-6 center in the NHL, but he's most likely a very good third-line prospect, who can do a little bit of everything. Look for him in the 3rd-round.