Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 12-15-2019, 11:12 AM   #261
kyuss275
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
It’s only a terrible idea if the value required to acquire Hall is larger than the value in getting him.

I don’t understand how people ever talk in absolutes on trades or trade concepts. In an effort to make your team better you explore any and all options on all of your assets. You don’t make absolutes, but obviously value differentiates quite largely depending on the asset.

For example, is it a terrible idea if you can land Taylor Hall for a 5th round pick and equivalent salary dump in a player like Lucic or some lower level collection of players or something like that? No, that’s a great idea but obviously unrealistic and not happening.

In short, is it a terrible idea? Who knows, we don’t know the assets at stake.
Pretty much this. If for arguements sake a 1st and Kylington were the main pieces going to Devils you make that trade everyday of the week. I did read that Arizonas offer didn't have their 2 best prospects in the deal, so who knows the actualy asking price.
kyuss275 is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:43 AM   #262
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Wow. I have drastically different views than many people on here.

I see the Flames in a window of couple more years after this. Gaudreau may walk and Giordano will get old. The Flames are one game breaker short of being a contender. Hall, who is definitely a game breaker in his prime and has connections to the city, is likely to for grabs.

The Flames should be all over this. They should find a way to retain both Hall and Gaudreau. This is the point you leverage the future a bit to win now. The Flames have a great team composition that they won't be able to duplicate for another decade.

A top six with Hall, Lindholm, Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk and a bottom six with Ryan, Mangiapane, Lucic, Bennett, and Dube is contender worthy. Throw in the excellent defence and finally having a true #1 goaltender, and I can't see a reason not to go all in with this team.

Hall is exactly what this team needs and they aren't getting a better opportunity at acquiring a game breaker.
blankall is online now  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:51 AM   #263
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Hall is not exactly what this team needs, but he's a clear upgrade in our top 6 as long as the cap can be managed.
Roof-Daddy is offline  
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Roof-Daddy For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 11:54 AM   #264
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
Hall is not exactly what this team needs, but he's a clear upgrade in our top 6 as long as the cap can be managed.
True. Zucker & Kadri would have benefited the team much more in my opinion. But, I’m almost okay with any clear top 6 upgrade at this point. It has to happen this season. Running out of time.
Scroopy Noopers is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Scroopy Noopers For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 11:55 AM   #265
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

Valimaki in trade proposals? If Treliving wouldn’t give up Valimaki for Mark Stone, he most certainly isn’t going to for Taylor Hall.
topfiverecords is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to topfiverecords For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 11:57 AM   #266
Coach
Franchise Player
 
Coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Wow. I have drastically different views than many people on here.

I see the Flames in a window of couple more years after this. Gaudreau may walk and Giordano will get old. The Flames are one game breaker short of being a contender. Hall, who is definitely a game breaker in his prime and has connections to the city, is likely to for grabs.

The Flames should be all over this. They should find a way to retain both Hall and Gaudreau. This is the point you leverage the future a bit to win now. The Flames have a great team composition that they won't be able to duplicate for another decade.

A top six with Hall, Lindholm, Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk and a bottom six with Ryan, Mangiapane, Lucic, Bennett, and Dube is contender worthy. Throw in the excellent defence and finally having a true #1 goaltender, and I can't see a reason not to go all in with this team.

Hall is exactly what this team needs and they aren't getting a better opportunity at acquiring a game breaker.
I agree, I just don't want him signed at his UFA premium, but I'm down to add him to this squad for a shot in this window.

I like Mangiapange, but there are a lot of chances he gets that a player like Hall would almost certainly bury. We need another gun to compete against the top teams. If he was right-handed it would be an absolute no-brainer.
__________________
Coach is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:57 AM   #267
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords View Post
Valimaki in trade proposals? If Treliving wouldn’t give up Valimaki for Mark Stone, he most certainly isn’t going to for Taylor Hall.


Valimaki’s value would be less after a serious injury.

Plus that was then, this is now. Perhaps he would be moved for a signed Hall, vs. the unsigned Stone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Cobra is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:58 AM   #268
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers View Post
True. Zucker & Kadri would have benefited the team much more in my opinion. But, I’m almost okay with any clear top 6 upgrade at this point. It has to happen this season. Running out of time.
Stone was a better option than Hall. However kadri and Zucker are not in that same class. Hall is a borderline franchise player. Many posters on here are vastly underrating his ability to help the Flames win games.
blankall is online now  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:59 AM   #269
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Stone was a better option than Hall. However kadri and Zucker are not in that same class. Hall is a borderline franchise player. Many posters on here are vastly underrating his ability to help the Flames win games.
Yes... but that was widely reported to be squashed due to Valimaki. Which I’m fine with. The other two had Brodie, Frolik and Jankowski going.
Scroopy Noopers is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:01 PM   #270
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Stone was a better option than Hall. However kadri and Zucker are not in that same class. Hall is a borderline franchise player. Many posters on here are vastly underrating his ability to help the Flames win games.
Of course they aren’t in the same class.... but they are BOTH signed for a couple more seasons at a combined cap hit less than what Hall will likely demand.
Scroopy Noopers is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:13 PM   #271
Heavy Jack
Franchise Player
 
Heavy Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords View Post
Valimaki in trade proposals? If Treliving wouldn’t give up Valimaki for Mark Stone, he most certainly isn’t going to for Taylor Hall.
That was before his off-season injury. Also Ward is performing extremely well as an interim coach and had T Hall on his team as an assistant when Hall won the Hart. You can’t help but think what a Hall - Lindholm - Tkachuk line could do. I hope this franchise finally ponies up and gets that final big piece to help them take a serious swing. They should have done it for Stone and they should be doing it now. If the window isn’t successful then you have major tradeable assets in the Gaudreau’s, Lindholm’s and Monahan’s to get assets back to rebuild faster but hopefully it works and we keep the Gaudreau’s, Lindholm’s and Monahan’s for longer than just one big contract cycle.
Heavy Jack is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Heavy Jack For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 12:17 PM   #272
dissentowner
Franchise Player
 
dissentowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Wow. I have drastically different views than many people on here.

I see the Flames in a window of couple more years after this. Gaudreau may walk and Giordano will get old. The Flames are one game breaker short of being a contender. Hall, who is definitely a game breaker in his prime and has connections to the city, is likely to for grabs.

The Flames should be all over this. They should find a way to retain both Hall and Gaudreau. This is the point you leverage the future a bit to win now. The Flames have a great team composition that they won't be able to duplicate for another decade.

A top six with Hall, Lindholm, Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk and a bottom six with Ryan, Mangiapane, Lucic, Bennett, and Dube is contender worthy. Throw in the excellent defence and finally having a true #1 goaltender, and I can't see a reason not to go all in with this team.

Hall is exactly what this team needs and they aren't getting a better opportunity at acquiring a game breaker.
Lmao, calling Hall a game breaker is like referring to a ditch as the Grand Canyon! He has one good season where he helped his team make the playoffs. He is almost always injured. He doesn't fit a positional need. His teams bleed goals when he is on the ice because he is just a dumb player. We get all that and a sentence into cap hell for years to boot. I can't wait until some other dumb GM trades for this guy and I hope to God he signs an extension with them so this insanity stops.
dissentowner is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dissentowner For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 12:20 PM   #273
KootenayFlamesFan
Commie Referee
 
KootenayFlamesFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
Exp:
Default

Valimaki is a stud, his injury doesn't hurt his trade value at all. He's not untouchable, but if you move him it's for a signed, affordable star. Not a UFA or a question mark. I'd be pretty shocked if he's moved for someone like Hall, who will either walk after this year or be signed to a monster contract. If Valimaki is moved it's for someone with term on their contract.
KootenayFlamesFan is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KootenayFlamesFan For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 12:23 PM   #274
Vinny01
Franchise Player
 
Vinny01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords View Post
Valimaki in trade proposals? If Treliving wouldn’t give up Valimaki for Mark Stone, he most certainly isn’t going to for Taylor Hall.
Maybe it comes down to the Flames thinking it will be easier to get Hall signed long term than it was last year when they could have been vulnerable to a Tkachuk offer sheet and had to get Rittich, Bennett etc signed as well. This summer is basically Anderson and deciding on Brodie/Hamomic.
Vinny01 is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:26 PM   #275
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner View Post
Lmao, calling Hall a game breaker is like referring to a ditch as the Grand Canyon! He has one good season where he helped his team make the playoffs. He is almost always injured. He doesn't fit a positional need. His teams bleed goals when he is on the ice because he is just a dumb player. We get all that and a sentence into cap hell for years to boot. I can't wait until some other dumb GM trades for this guy and I hope to God he signs an extension with them so this insanity stops.
Hall has 536 points in 592 games while playing for absolute gong shows of teams. His career consists of more than just one good season.
blankall is online now  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 12:31 PM   #276
dissentowner
Franchise Player
 
dissentowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Hall has 536 points in 592 games while playing for absolute gong shows of teams. His career consists of more than just one good season.
Right, so not a game breaker. Not even close.
dissentowner is online now  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:32 PM   #277
dammage79
Franchise Player
 
dammage79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I dont think for one second Taylor Hall is a signing a sweetheart contract extension.

And I dont understand the fervor for him. He is perhaps the epitome of Oilers stentch of them all. It follows him.
dammage79 is offline  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:34 PM   #278
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01 View Post
Maybe it comes down to the Flames thinking it will be easier to get Hall signed long term than it was last year when they could have been vulnerable to a Tkachuk offer sheet and had to get Rittich, Bennett etc signed as well. This summer is basically Anderson and deciding on Brodie/Hamomic.
You can’t possibly picture a scenario in the future where the Flames have a 7 million dollar underperforming Hall and Valimaki is on a path to being NJ’s #1 defenseman? I can, and I think it would be the most likely outcome. That’s nauseating to think about.

So Valimaki is a hard no. Especially for Hall. His injury hasn’t done anything significant to his trade value. He’s still young with great pedigree and a super high ceiling. Trading him would be incredibly short sighted. Not even with considering Giordano will retire, Brodie and Hamonic may be gone, and Kylington is still a question mark. We need him more than we need someone like Hall.
topfiverecords is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to topfiverecords For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 12:35 PM   #279
Kovaz
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner View Post
Lmao, calling Hall a game breaker is like referring to a ditch as the Grand Canyon! He has one good season where he helped his team make the playoffs. He is almost always injured. He doesn't fit a positional need. His teams bleed goals when he is on the ice because he is just a dumb player. We get all that and a sentence into cap hell for years to boot. I can't wait until some other dumb GM trades for this guy and I hope to God he signs an extension with them so this insanity stops.
Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund all allow more goals against and chances against than Hall over the last 3 years.
Kovaz is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Kovaz For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2019, 12:37 PM   #280
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79 View Post
I dont think for one second Taylor Hall is a signing a sweetheart contract extension.

And I dont understand the fervor for him. He is perhaps the epitome of Oilers stentch of them all. It follows him.
He’s good luck for draft lotteries though so I guess there’s that to consider.
topfiverecords is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021