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Old 11-15-2016, 04:01 PM   #41
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Never said $500 was the right number, but clearly $1,500 is a bit onerous for the average income. A lot of smart people have clearly made a boat load of money off this for the last while.
$1500 is pushing the high end of day care in Calgary. Average income earners aren't seeking out $1500 day care centres.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:03 PM   #42
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Is it even remotely possibly to run a daycare on $25/day/kid?

If it isn't why should it be subsidized to that point?
I'd be cutting free snacks and putting in a cash bar and also the slide would become a toll slide.

Want to watch a movie it'll cost you this much.

What you want the lego? You can buy your own set in the gift shop in the basement.

$25.00 per child sounds pretty tough. since your probably paying two people to be there to watch the kids at what $200.00 a day just for staff costs it means you need a minimum of 10 kids a day steady.

At $25.00 per kid your subsidizing a pretty heavy share of the costs and that doesn't make sense.

Its funny because they're talking $25.00 per day per kid and yet my sister just opened a doggy day care and the day rate is $35.00 per day.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:07 PM   #43
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Yeah, I'm raising 3 future taxpayers that are going to help pay for the diaper changes for half the old farts around here. Not sure if people realize declining birthrates equal less available tax money when you're old and senile.

I was paying $2k/mo for 2 kids full time in daycare. Right now with my wife not working I pay $800 a month for twice a week.

When I was in Arizona we put the kids in Daycare when we went boating and it was $15 per kid per day with meals. Pretty big difference between there and here.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:19 PM   #44
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$25.00 per child sounds pretty tough. since your probably paying two people to be there to watch the kids at what $200.00 a day just for staff costs it means you need a minimum of 10 kids a day steady.

At $25.00 per kid your subsidizing a pretty heavy share of the costs and that doesn't make sense.

Its funny because they're talking $25.00 per day per kid and yet my sister just opened a doggy day care and the day rate is $35.00 per day.
In Alberta the regulations are that child to staff ratios are:
3:1 for under 12 months
4:1 12-19 months
6:1 19 months - 3 years
8:1 3 - 4.5 years

They also have various regulations for the certification levels of staff that are required on site. Assuming an average pay level of $25/hour and minimum staffing levels 1 out of 4 or so kids covers the staffing costs while the 3 kids cover the overhead, other costs and provide profit.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:22 PM   #45
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K that's just elder abuse.
Haha, it was her idea! She loves watching him, offered to do it for free even but I said we'd at least pay her for his food and a few little trips out and such.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:28 PM   #46
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Yeah, I'm raising 3 future taxpayers that are going to help pay for the diaper changes for half the old farts around here. Not sure if people realize declining birthrates equal less available tax money when you're old and senile.
Irrelevant argument unless you can demonstrate that cheap day care directly results in a significantly higher birth rate.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:35 PM   #47
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Yeah, I'm raising 3 future taxpayers that are going to help pay for the diaper changes for half the old farts around here. Not sure if people realize declining birthrates equal less available tax money when you're old and senile.

I was paying $2k/mo for 2 kids full time in daycare. Right now with my wife not working I pay $800 a month for twice a week.

When I was in Arizona we put the kids in Daycare when we went boating and it was $15 per kid per day with meals. Pretty big difference between there and here.
Just curious, was this a big daycare operation with lots of kids? Or were they illegals working for what they could? What makes it sustainable there for $15 when that is clearly not possible here, because I assume their isn't much subsidizing going on in the US.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:41 PM   #48
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Not to mention that the median income in Phoenix is only 60% of the median income in Calgary.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:17 PM   #49
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I've always liked the idea of regulating childcare costs, but I believe the best way to go about this is provide a tax break for owners and people who work in that field. Instead of creating subsidies for those businesses. People would still need to pay more tax for the shortfall created by any break for those owners and workers, however it seems like that would be the much cheaper option.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:31 PM   #50
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Can't we just get a bunch of TFWs to raise our kids?
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:32 PM   #51
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Never said $500 was the right number, but clearly $1,500 is a bit onerous for the average income. A lot of smart people have clearly made a boat load of money off this for the last while.
And the people CHOOSING to pay $1,500 a month have other options rather than pay that much and never had a gun to their head when they decided to have kids. Since responsible people would have looked at all the costs prior to unzipping, the cost of childcare was never a surprise and these people would have factored it into their budgets.

Onealternative is that one parent stays home. But that also assumes that the second parent isn't forced to work because of the ####ty financial skills the majority of people seem to possess.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:45 PM   #52
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amusing numbers. I pay over $1500 a month for my 2.5 year old daughter to go to daycare 5 days a week.
Have you tried calling around? You're getting robbed. Are you not aware of that? There'd better be magic carpets and giant beanstalks at that daycare.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:47 PM   #53
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Have you tried calling around? You're getting robbed. Are you not aware of that? There'd better be magic carpets and giant beanstalks at that daycare.
We love it. She loves it. She eats all organic food and has snacks and diapers taken care of.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:56 PM   #54
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We love it. She loves it. She eats all organic food and has snacks and diapers taken care of.
Ok then. The 'amusing numbers' part of your post kinda sounded like you were complaining about the price. I guess not.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:15 PM   #55
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And the people CHOOSING to pay $1,500 a month have other options rather than pay that much and never had a gun to their head when they decided to have kids. Since responsible people would have looked at all the costs prior to unzipping, the cost of childcare was never a surprise and these people would have factored it into their budgets.

Onealternative is that one parent stays home. But that also assumes that the second parent isn't forced to work because of the ####ty financial skills the majority of people seem to possess.
How can people plan for the costs of daycare when it can be increased by 50% in a boom? Seriously I get where you are coming from, but it's very difficult to plan 2 years in advance(baby making time, pregnancy and 1 year of mat leave) for an expense that can skyrocket drastically. When my first child was born, the best price we could find for a full-time day home was $700 for a 1 year old, by the time she was 1, the best deal we could find for a day home was $800/month for a 1 year old, 2 years later when our second child was born, we couldn't find a place for under $1000. And the expected drop in price for our first child(gets cheaper as they get older) was also negated by this inflation. So in the course of 3 years we were paying about $500/month more than we had planned for. That's not an insignificant amount of money, and most people certainly did not see that kind of inflation in their salaries in the same time period.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:16 PM   #56
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We love it. She loves it. She eats all organic food and has snacks and diapers taken care of.
You're still getting hosed IMO
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:37 PM   #57
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Irrelevant argument unless you can demonstrate that cheap day care directly results in a significantly higher birth rate.
Anecdotally I can say it does. My opinion as a father also says yes.

But if you want an unbiased peer reviewed study I can't give it to you because I'm knee deep parenting while trying to watch a Flames game. I googled it and found lots of stuff saying it does in fact raise birth rates but I'm not going to vet them. So I guess I will concede to you all NDP policy must still be bad.

Carry on.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:44 PM   #58
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Yeah, the fact that parents who choose to have kids still have to actually pay for their kids is a real tragedy.
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Irrelevant argument unless you can demonstrate that cheap day care directly results in a significantly higher birth rate.
I'm not sure what it would take to convince you that the cost of raising kids has an impact on the birth rate. Anecdotally, parents I know have cited cost as the reason not to have a 2nd or 3rd child.

Then there's the gender income gap, which is mostly due to moms leaving the workforce for several years mid-career. Some would stay home anyway. But if you're making 48k and you're faced with the prospect of handing over 70 per cent of your paycheque for daycare for two kids, it's a no-brainer for most moms to stay home.

This notion that kids and the costs of kids are a burden on society is pretty short-sighted. As was pointed out, you can make up the numbers with ever-increasing immigration, or you can watch your taxbase and economy shrink as the population relentlessly ages.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:45 PM   #59
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Just curious, was this a big daycare operation with lots of kids? Or were they illegals working for what they could? What makes it sustainable there for $15 when that is clearly not possible here, because I assume their isn't much subsidizing going on in the US.
I was in Havasu, it was a normal size operation (4 or 5 rooms?) all staffed by white Middle Ages women.

I've also used a day home there that was $10 a day per kid no meals. Young couple who was just looking for extra income.
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:06 PM   #60
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I don't want to out 1%er Caniehdianman here but I have two kids in daycare at about that cost (as do many of our friends). It is an absolute gong show and as he said, I'm 100% this day care is not aimed at me and my peers and I'm somehow going to end up getting screwed.
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