[PGT] Dallas something Flames not enough

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Fixed that for you.

If you just stopped with your first statement that would be enough, but you have to constantly be condescending to the rest of the board and tell us how the rest of us are fools for not agreeing with you. It's not a good look to constantly consider yourself "the smartest guy in the room". Do you really want to be like Weisbrod?

Not including your quote, these are just from the last couple of days.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The dude bro in this thread makes me sad.



Let's take a guess on who wrote this

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It feels like it was just a month or so ago that I was told that not only is backlund a good second line centre, hrs a top second line centre.

I don't know who to believe anymore.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

nah it's the schedule dude

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh...


What?

Can you imagine going through life consistently talking to other people this way?

The way he randomly and without cause speaks down to posters like GranteedEV, Flames Draft Watcher and a few others is pretty disgusting. GrantedEV is a guy I usually disagree with, but I can respect that he brings his own perspective to every post.

[burn_this_city]

I don't see any scenario where Treliving fires Peters, it's a roster personnel issue if they're tuning out another coach already.

[calgaryfox]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not sure what sources Friedman getting his information from but on 960 this morning he implied that Peters was grinding the players too much.

If $6m players are upset about harsh language and being called out about their sub par performances, maybe they should do a gut check or find a job where their boss is less demanding. I could live with the option of being yelled at and even have by feet held to the fire for one season just to get paid $6m US.

Poor snowflakes.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm not convinced that this core ever tuned out Hartley, and maybe not even Gulutzan as terrible as he was. What I remember happening with Hartley was:

1) Hiller had an awful year in net letting every point shot through, culminating in a Rasmus Ristolainen hat trick of point shots.
2) Giordano had a rough start returning from a major injury
3) Hamilton had a rough start as he adjusted to vastly different systems
4) Brodie had a career year marred only by missing the beginning of the season to injury. Gaudreau, Bennett, Colborne, Backlund, and even Monahan all had solid seasons.
5) The clock expectedly struck 12 on Russell, Jooris, Granlund, and Bouma. To a lesser extent, Hudler and Wideman came down to Earth.
6) Wideman caused the team to go from the least penalized team in the first half to miraculously being the most penalized team in the second half
7) Treliving decided to place Byron on waivers without having a valid replacement for his speed, tenacity, and two way play in the bottom six. He didn't replace that element until signing Ryan and Czarnik last season.

Hartley's stretch pass heavy systems caused Treliving to fire him, but otherwise that team played for each other and for Hartley.

In Gulutzan's case, the team finished the season outshooting opponents vastly, often hitting the 35 to 40 shot mark and having nothing to show for it. Gulutzan had them playing his systems to perfection and the dissonance between the process and results was actually remarkable. The issue was that whatever Gulutzan was trying clearly wasn't working. Blame luck, blame Gulutzan's rigid line construction, blame a lack of pace inherent to his breakout schemes, but you can't blame the core for not executing his plan.

If the core has indeed tuned out Peters (which for the first time actually looks possible due to their lethargic and sloppy play and poor underlying numbers, and may be related to how badly he got outcoached last April) it would not be indicative of a pattern with the core.

For the most part is all speculation. Based on what has been said to me and around the city though it seems well reported that the players were done with Hartley and their efforts down the stretch with both he and Gulutzan (when the playoffs were fully within reach) sure left a lot to be desired. In both circumstances I wouldn't personally agree they were playing for each other or the coach and I see a lot of parallels. Guess it depends on what you are looking for when players are tuning out a coach.

[Saqe]

I'd say there is about 0% chance Peters is getting fired anytime soon. They need to miss playoffs this year and probably next before Tre even considers it after bringing him in. The core will get a shakeup before that.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Bob Hartley is overrated on here, big time.

edit - Listed from best winning percentage to worst, while coaching for the Flames

1. Terry Crisp
2. Bill Peters
3. Mike Keenan
4. Jim Playfair
5. Darryl Sutter
6. Dave King
7. Brent Sutter
8. Doug Risebrough
9. Bob Johnson
10. Glen Gulutzan
11. Fred Creighton
12. Al McNeil
13. Bob Hartley (First coach with a losing record on the all time coaching list)

[Harry Lime]

That list is in no discernible order. But I see what you're getting at.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

That list is in no discernible order. But I see what you're getting at.

Sorry, it's arranged by winning percentages while coaching for the Flames.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Bob Hartley is overrated on here, big time.

edit - Listed from best winning percentage to worst, while coaching for the Flames

1. Terry Crisp
2. Bill Peters
3. Mike Keenan
4. Jim Playfair
5. Darryl Sutter
6. Dave King
7. Brent Sutter
8. Doug Risebrough
9. Bob Johnson
10. Glen Gulutzan
11. Fred Creighton
12. Al McNeil
13. Bob Hartley (First coach with a losing record on the all time coaching list)

He had a rag tag rebuilding roster. Give him today's roster or prime Iginla and he would have them motivated and at a high win pct. His all time win pct is higher than Gallant, DeBoer, Torterella, Peters, Maurice which you could say is motivated by the roster he had in Colorado. So if we want to evaluate him on equal footing we should look at what other coaches did with equally crap Flames rosters like Brian Sutter, Greg Gilbert, Don Hay, etc. I think Hartley did well with what he had which was a bunch of rookies. That team was ready to play and the most conditioned and fast I had ever seen them. I think he would make a good assistant. He can let someone else handle the X and O's and focus on motivation and conditioning/ bag skating. Edit He had some very good seasons in Atlanta as well as the Adams Season in Calgary so he definitely deserves credit

[zamler]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Bob Hartley is overrated on here, big time.

edit - Listed from best winning percentage to worst, while coaching for the Flames

1. Terry Crisp
2. Bill Peters
3. Mike Keenan
4. Jim Playfair
5. Darryl Sutter
6. Dave King
7. Brent Sutter
8. Doug Risebrough
9. Bob Johnson
10. Glen Gulutzan
11. Fred Creighton
12. Al McNeil
13. Bob Hartley (First coach with a losing record on the all time coaching list)

Winning % in the playoffs is what matters to me.

[Travis Munroe]

Peters is not the issue and turning over another coach is not the solution.

I don't care how much speculation is out there that he is too hard on guys.... Gaudreau has been a shell of himself, much of it due to the lack of effort defensively. Much of his opportunity was self created last year. This year, I find him floating too high looking for the breakout pass.

Monahan hasn't been much of a issue... As good as Gaudreau is, he is bringing Monahan and Lindholm down. I feel Gaudreau needs to be tried on a line with 2 guys who don't have the finishing capability such as Lindholm and Monahan but have the workhorse mentality to get him the puck and let him do his 1 man show or finish the tap ins he creates.

I previously felt the best bet was to get back to the original lines and let them work themselves out but the top line has been so underwhelming.

The bright side is that we have played awful with short stretches in each game of the last year flames yet still find ourselves in the hunt. In past years, we find ourselves on the outside looking in because we havent had good goaltending since Kipper. Rittich has played better than great for this team, keeping them in many games which they end up squeeking a point or 2 from.

It falls on the players.

[VilleN]

I would like to see how this lineup might work:
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett
Dube - Backlund - Frolik
Jankowski - Ryan - Lucic

I think it spreads the offence out more. Gives Tkachuk more competent linemates, and maybe splitting Gaudreau and Monahan up might spark their games. I don’t think Tkachuk and Monahan are that slow, so I don’t feel it’s an issue and our centre depth looks pretty good with this config.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think teams have adjusted to the Flames including their top players, and those top players have yet to adjust against that.
The book is out on how to defend Johnny and crew.

I rather agree with this. Which is an indictment of said players and the coaching.

I guess problem is we haven’t seen either the coaching staff of the teams star players have any kind of sustained success in this league so not surprising the fingers get pointed in lots of directions. Not many on this team have proven much of anything.

[Brick]

I would like to see Tkachuk on the 1st line with Monahan & Lindholm.
They could finish all the perfect feeds that Backlund & Mangiapane usually whiff on or miss the net. Lindholm is defensively responsible on that line. This line would also provide a more physical presence. Chucky is a difference maker and belongs on the 1st line. Teams have figured out how to make Johnny ineffective.

Gaudreau should be with Backlund as a defensive presence when Johnny turns the puck over, as he often does. He could learn to be a better 2 way player there. Mangiapane could continue his trial with them.

At least it would be something different from the norm that really isn't working.

[calumniate]

^interesting thought.. I wonder how gaudreau would take it?

Also doug risebrough greatest coach and gm of all time :d

[Strange Brew]

I’d like to see Lindholm centering Tkachuk as the “top line”.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’d like to see Lindholm centering Tkachuk as the “top line”.

Agree.

I would also not mind seeing Bennett get a proper look with Johnny. For a decent enough period of time to see if chemistry develops.

A lot of complaints that Bennett gets himself in to trouble carrying the puck. Okay, let Johnny carry it. A lot of complaints that Johnny is soft. Bennett adds some strength and physicality.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Agree.

I would also not mind seeing Bennett get a proper look with Johnny. For a decent enough period of time to see if chemistry develops.

A lot of complaints that Bennett gets himself in to trouble carrying the puck. Okay, let Johnny carry it. A lot of complaints that Johnny is soft. Bennett adds some strength and physicality.

Why not?

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett

I can think lots of reasons why it won’t work but that to me is how this forward group should be played for a while.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by zamler

Winning % in the playoffs is what matters to me.

Yes, I agree.

Hartley was 1 of 2 coaches that were able to get the flames to the 2nd round of the Playoffs in 20 years. He did ot with a bunch of ragtag players . He even got a victory out of that round against a team that absolutely use to dominate the flames .

He also held people responsible. He sat Johnny and Sean out because their off ice actions and publicly let it be known why. I don't think alot of any other coach would do that to the top line players.