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Old 03-08-2021, 05:40 PM   #8801
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Honest question as I don't know the answer, but are we much better than that? I don't know that either team has had a particularly glowing draft record over that period. I know Brodie and Gaudreau stand out as late round success stories for us.
It is a fair bit better, actually. One of those players on the Oilers list is a bonafide top-four defenseman, Jeff Petrie; whereas the Flames have drafted three in Brodie, Fox and Andersson. While the best Oilers forward drafted over that period is Khairaóa third/fourth line 'tweener, the Flames in the same period of time have found all of Ferland, Gaudreau, Mangiapane and Dube outside of Round #1.
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Old 03-08-2021, 05:46 PM   #8802
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Unlike the 80's where no Flames fans could recognize Lanny McDonald or Mike Vernon when they saw them on the street. The glory days when Canadian teams won 7 straight Cups and the players were able to play in anonymity.
What the... ???
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Old 03-08-2021, 05:49 PM   #8803
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What the... ???
It's sarcasm.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:21 PM   #8804
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Wasn't sure if serious.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:25 PM   #8805
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Unlike the 80's where no Flames fans could recognize Lanny McDonald or Mike Vernon when they saw them on the street. The glory days when Canadian teams won 7 straight Cups and the players were able to play in anonymity.
Great post, and proves that humour is one the best ways to communicate.

Mike Vernon did admit that it eventually was too much for him though.

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Old 03-08-2021, 06:38 PM   #8806
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The last time a team won the Stanley Cup in a city that hockey is the #1 sport was 1993

not an excuse, just a fact
It's a damn shame.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:39 PM   #8807
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Great post, and proves that humour is one the best ways to communicate.

Mike Vernon did admit that it eventually was too much for him though.
Playing in your hometown is a complete other level I suspect. But the Canadian pressure is just an excuse in general in my opinion. The fascinating thing is that Canadian organizations seem unwilling to build their franchises properly. I honestly think Canadian markets are unique in that their fans would understand why they need to rebuild at times, unlike say Carolina where they could legitimately lose a third of their fans if they suck too long. Yet it never is really properly tried up here.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:47 PM   #8808
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In the last 7 drafts the Jets have had the following for picks

1st round - 7
2nd round - 4
3rd round - 5

They made the playoffs in 3 out of the 5 years where there was a full season and won two playoff rounds since 14/15. They will make the playoffs this year

Over the same time period the Flames have had the following for picks

First round - 5
2nd round - 7
3rd round - 5

They made the playoffs 3 out of the 5 years there was a full season and won the play-in last year. They won one series in that time and look like they will miss the playoffs this year.

I doubt that you could trade 3 2nd rounders for two first rounders, so one could say that the Jets held on to higher value picks, had more playoff success and have a better core going forward. Hard to say the Jets had a bunch more picks though.

In hindsight it would have been nice if Scheifele had been healthy last year because it could have been a different series and may have accelerated the changes that need to take place in Calgary. But it may not matter anyway because I suspect that any changes will be around a win now philosophy and I do not think the Flames have the assets to accomplish that and it risks selling off even more future assets to try to achieve better short term results. We will see how Zary turns out, but even last year to recoup two third rounders we basically did a version of the Jankowski trade. What this team really needs to do is what the Rangers did a couple years ago and the Flyers have done more than once and admit that this group does not have it and recoup whatever future assets it can from this roster and try to have a contender 24 months from now. However, that is not going to happen.
Not to mention Trouba and Laine basically forced their way out and the Big Buff and Kane issues. They have been able to make lemonade out of lemons pretty consistently since they have made it backs into the league. Its a good mgmt group imo for sure.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:48 PM   #8809
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Canadian teams typically have a harder time luring free agents without massively overpaying and are often on players no-trade lists.

I donít think itís any coincidence Canadian teams have a harder time winning. We have a disadvantage that places like LA and New York simply donít have to deal with. Itís bull#### and totally unfair (which is why I think NTCís should die forever) but it is what it is.
Plus you have a bunch of places that have a combo of nice southern weather and no state tax. Arizona, Vegas, Dallas, Nashville, Tampa, Florida...you keep way more of your money and can buy a sick compound with pools and everything you would want for way cheaper. This is a big issue in the NHL, I donít see any end to a Canadian cup drought in sight when thereís this much of an imbalance. We might have to go to an NBA style system where the team that drafts or trades for a player can pay them more than other teams when theyíre UFAs. Toronto better hope they can win before Matthews contract is up because that dude is GONE when his contract is up. Why would you pay millions and millions of dollars in higher taxes to live in a cold snowy bubble when you could be relaxing in the Arizona sun counting your money? Itís a no brainer to me.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:05 PM   #8810
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Honest question as I don't pay attention to the minors outside of players that might impact Calgary but does Edmonton have significant issues in their development program if they can't generate much success from their draft prospects?
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:34 PM   #8811
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Too much EDM talk in this trade speculation & speculation thread. Boo
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:43 PM   #8812
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Unlike the 80's where no Flames fans could recognize Lanny McDonald or Mike Vernon when they saw them on the street. The glory days when Canadian teams won 7 straight Cups and the players were able to play in anonymity.
Yeah media hasn't changed at all since the 80s

Sarcasm face

1993
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:45 PM   #8813
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Yeah media hasn't changed at all since the 80s

Sarcasm face

1993
Well your point is irrefutable, too much scrutiny in Canadian cities and way more than in the 80ís. My bad.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:59 PM   #8814
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Completely off topic, which seems to be the norm, is there a thread about hockey pools where we can give each other tips and suggestions?
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Old 03-08-2021, 09:23 PM   #8815
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Canadian teams typically have a harder time luring free agents without massively overpaying and are often on players no-trade lists.

I donít think itís any coincidence Canadian teams have a harder time winning. We have a disadvantage that places like LA and New York simply donít have to deal with. Itís bull#### and totally unfair (which is why I think NTCís should die forever) but it is what it is.

UFA's don't mean that much to becoming a contender...they can help put you over the top though. The Flames have signed as many 4x4 and 5x5 contracts as anyone except PHI and NYR since the lockout.


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It is a fair bit better, actually. One of those players on the Oilers list is a bonafide top-four defenseman, Jeff Petrie; whereas the Flames have drafted three in Brodie, Fox and Andersson. While the best Oilers forward drafted over that period is Khairaóa third/fourth line 'tweener, the Flames in the same period of time have found all of Ferland, Gaudreau, Mangiapane and Dube outside of Round #1.
Also:
Markus Granlund played 335 games (admittedly an arbitrary cut off)
Brett Kulak is at 235
Lance Bouma played 357
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Old 03-08-2021, 09:33 PM   #8816
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Also:

Markus Granlund played 335 games (admittedly an arbitrary cut off)

Brett Kulak is at 235

Lance Bouma played 357
Exactly. These are the same sorts of players that Edmonton has represented by the likes of Khaira, Reider and Jones. The Oilers hit a home-run with Petry, but there is really nothing else there outside the first round. It is of course additionally hilarious the Petry left the Oilers while he was still not an established player.

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Old 03-09-2021, 08:17 AM   #8817
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Plus you have a bunch of places that have a combo of nice southern weather and no state tax. Arizona, Vegas, Dallas, Nashville, Tampa, Florida...you keep way more of your money and can buy a sick compound with pools and everything you would want for way cheaper. This is a big issue in the NHL, I don’t see any end to a Canadian cup drought in sight when there’s this much of an imbalance. We might have to go to an NBA style system where the team that drafts or trades for a player can pay them more than other teams when they’re UFAs. Toronto better hope they can win before Matthews contract is up because that dude is GONE when his contract is up. Why would you pay millions and millions of dollars in higher taxes to live in a cold snowy bubble when you could be relaxing in the Arizona sun counting your money? It’s a no brainer to me.
This narrative needs to stop. I've seen it repeated multiple times in the past few weeks and it is so inaccurate and not reflective of reality. Some states have no personal state tax on income (earnings). Arizona is NOT one of them. Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming levy no state income tax. New Hampshire and Tennessee don't tax earned wages, meaning investment income is taxed. In all off these states you are still required to pay federal tax on all income, then be exposed to the regular taxes in each state. What matters is the tax burden you end up carrying.

In Florida sales and property taxes are quite high and complex, raising the tax burden to about 6.82%. Coupled with a high cost of living comparative to other states and low quality of services (education and healthcare are all ranked near the bottom of the country) and Florida is no bargain to live in. Nevada has a high sales tax and it is imposed on everything. Sin taxes like those in Canada are imposed on goods like alcohol and cigarettes. The real tax burden in the silver state is 8.39%. Like Florida, service quality from the State is low with their education system taking a hit. Texas is like Florida and raises funds on sales and property taxes leading to a tax burden of 8.2% with a similar hit in public services (poor infrastructure that gets frozen out and shuts down the state for example). Washington relies on high sales and excise taxes and achieves a tax burden of 8.32%. Worse, Washington's cost of living is one of the highest in the nation making it one of the worst for affordability. Tennessee is actually one of the lowest taxed states, with a tax burden of only 6.18%, but the potential for marrying your sister increases greatly the longer you live in the State. Like other states with low taxes, services are also of low quality.

So how does this really compare in the overall picture for states with NHL teams? New York (Rangers, Islanders, Sabres) face a 12.28% tax burden (4.4% personal tax). Minnesota (Wild) face a 10.19% tax burden (3.61% personal tax). New Jersey (Devils) face a 9.88% tax burden (2.4% personal tax). Illinois (Blackhawks) faces a 9.62% tax burden (1.91% personal tax). Ohio (Jackets) faces a 9.34% tax burden (2.58% personal tax). California (Ducks, Kings, Sharks) face a 9.27% tax burden (3.56% personal tax). Massachusetts (Bruins) face a 8.76% tax burden (3.17% personal tax). Pennsylvania (Flyers, Penguins) face a 8.53% tax burden (2.51% personal tax). Colorado (Avs) face a 8.5% tax burden (2.22% personal tax). Washington (Kraken) face a 8.32% tax burden (0% personal tax). Michigan (Wings) face a 8.27% tax burden (2.18% personal tax). Arizona (Houston Red Necks) face a 8.25% tax burden (1.39% personal tax). Texas (Stars) face a 8.5% tax burden (2.22% personal tax). Missouri (Blues) face a 7.9% tax burden (2.38% personal tax). Florida (Lightning, Panthers) face a 6.82% tax burden (0% personal tax). Tennessee (Preds) face a 6.18% tax burden (0.08% personal tax).

So no, certain states do not have taxes, and no player is saving "millions of dollars" in taxes. They still catch you where they can. Those states are also some of the worst to live in if you have a family and have to rely on essential services like education, health services, and good infrastructure. Of course, when you're a millionaire most of these things don't matter to you. Which is why players are still flocking to New York and California based teams to play. The tax dodge is really a myth.
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Old 03-09-2021, 08:56 AM   #8818
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This narrative needs to stop. I've seen it repeated multiple times in the past few weeks and it is so inaccurate and not reflective of reality. Some states have no personal state tax on income (earnings). Arizona is NOT one of them. Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming levy no state income tax. New Hampshire and Tennessee don't tax earned wages, meaning investment income is taxed. In all off these states you are still required to pay federal tax on all income, then be exposed to the regular taxes in each state. What matters is the tax burden you end up carrying.

In Florida sales and property taxes are quite high and complex, raising the tax burden to about 6.82%. Coupled with a high cost of living comparative to other states and low quality of services (education and healthcare are all ranked near the bottom of the country) and Florida is no bargain to live in. Nevada has a high sales tax and it is imposed on everything. Sin taxes like those in Canada are imposed on goods like alcohol and cigarettes. The real tax burden in the silver state is 8.39%. Like Florida, service quality from the State is low with their education system taking a hit. Texas is like Florida and raises funds on sales and property taxes leading to a tax burden of 8.2% with a similar hit in public services (poor infrastructure that gets frozen out and shuts down the state for example). Washington relies on high sales and excise taxes and achieves a tax burden of 8.32%. Worse, Washington's cost of living is one of the highest in the nation making it one of the worst for affordability. Tennessee is actually one of the lowest taxed states, with a tax burden of only 6.18%, but the potential for marrying your sister increases greatly the longer you live in the State. Like other states with low taxes, services are also of low quality.

So how does this really compare in the overall picture for states with NHL teams? New York (Rangers, Islanders, Sabres) face a 12.28% tax burden (4.4% personal tax). Minnesota (Wild) face a 10.19% tax burden (3.61% personal tax). New Jersey (Devils) face a 9.88% tax burden (2.4% personal tax). Illinois (Blackhawks) faces a 9.62% tax burden (1.91% personal tax). Ohio (Jackets) faces a 9.34% tax burden (2.58% personal tax). California (Ducks, Kings, Sharks) face a 9.27% tax burden (3.56% personal tax). Massachusetts (Bruins) face a 8.76% tax burden (3.17% personal tax). Pennsylvania (Flyers, Penguins) face a 8.53% tax burden (2.51% personal tax). Colorado (Avs) face a 8.5% tax burden (2.22% personal tax). Washington (Kraken) face a 8.32% tax burden (0% personal tax). Michigan (Wings) face a 8.27% tax burden (2.18% personal tax). Arizona (Houston Red Necks) face a 8.25% tax burden (1.39% personal tax). Texas (Stars) face a 8.5% tax burden (2.22% personal tax). Missouri (Blues) face a 7.9% tax burden (2.38% personal tax). Florida (Lightning, Panthers) face a 6.82% tax burden (0% personal tax). Tennessee (Preds) face a 6.18% tax burden (0.08% personal tax).

So no, certain states do not have taxes, and no player is saving "millions of dollars" in taxes. They still catch you where they can. Those states are also some of the worst to live in if you have a family and have to rely on essential services like education, health services, and good infrastructure. Of course, when you're a millionaire most of these things don't matter to you. Which is why players are still flocking to New York and California based teams to play. The tax dodge is really a myth.
Don't they just "write it off'
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Old 03-09-2021, 09:13 AM   #8819
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Don't they just "write it off'


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Old 03-09-2021, 10:24 AM   #8820
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Rumour that Eichel is out for awhile with an injury..

https://twitter.com/user/status/1369317522009452549
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