Lets Talk About Sleep Apnea/CPAP Machines

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by jeffporfirio

Ordered and got my equipment 3 days later (shipped from Montreal).
I had my family Dr help set it up, and the first night (yesterday) was Brutal!

Hopefully, sleeping with this thing gets easier (my wife said I didn't snore, probably because I was awake all night!)

I would question if your GP is the best person to be setting up the machine?
Also, if you have trouble sleeping with the mask consider trying another type. They started me with one that covered the mouth and nose but I couldn't sleep with it, I have the nasal pillow type now and sleep like a baby/zombie.

[Robo]

I had a buddy that would stop breathing just about every minute he never even would have thought it was happening always said he woke up feeling fine

[edslunch]

I’ve started trying a CPAP machine to treat apnea. I’ve adapted reasonably well so far - it’s been just under a week - and the tech has seen a dramatic reduction in apnea events via remote monitoring. I still feel like a zombie half the day though. Others here have said what a huge difference it made to them - how long did it take to notice improvements in energy and wakefulness?

[AFireInside]

I had an old machine from my father in law, because we've suspected I have apnea. I've always felt the same whether I sleep 3 or 4 hours or 7 or 8, I often feel worse if I sleep longer.

I've done three sleep apnea tests, and this third one was the only time they were able to get enough data.. Sure enough, severe sleep apnea, stop breathing about 35 times an hour.

I ordered a mask and have been using the older machine I already have, while I wait to get a new one, just to get used to it. The first couple weeks weren't game changing, but I didn't have headaches, and I felt more awake for the first half of the day. Once I get the new machine with a humidifier etc, I'm hoping it will make a big difference. The last couple weeks I haven't been sleeping as well though, so we'll see.

I really just want to see what it's like to wake up refreshed for the first time in my life.

[Locke]

Just a heads up, if anyone uses 'Peak Sleep' sure they advertise direct billing for your insurance.

But you'd get it done faster if Grandma took it down the Oregon Trail, died of dysentery, was resurrected and then kept on truckin'!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’ve started trying a CPAP machine to treat apnea. I’ve adapted reasonably well so far - it’s been just under a week - and the tech has seen a dramatic reduction in apnea events via remote monitoring. I still feel like a zombie half the day though. Others here have said what a huge difference it made to them - how long did it take to notice improvements in energy and wakefulness?

Man, give it 4-6 weeks. You're going to feel better and better over several weeks.

[MoneyGuy]

It was pretty much immediate for me. I’ve been fortunate as a friend gave his up soon after starting. He couldn’t get used to wearing the mask.

[pylon]

This is a wall of text, but I suggest you read it before going to Peak.

I was bad, like real bad. Choking, gasping, even woke up and puked a couple times from the choking. My wife is super worried I'm gonna die, as it got so bad. I had a dentist appointment, and had to be sat up 3 or four times as my airway kept closing, so the dentist asks if I have trouble sleeping, and suggests a sleep clinic as well. I don't want to die of choking to death so it was finally time to book an appointment, I chose Peak.

I finally have the sleep study done after being re-booked 3 times, always at the last second, all three times. This isn't starting well. In the face to face appointment, I'm told I'm a fat f@#$ which I don't disagree with, and is likely contributing. I take home the testing machine and it turns out I was 88 events per hour after wearing the testing machine for a night.

Then I had to go for the advanced study in the vaccum chamber etc.... and told how bad I was, "severe apnea", you could choke to death, worst they've seen in months, then get told, we'll make you an appointment for a trial machine a month from now. "Ok, you are saying my life is in danger, but wait another month for a machine?" My BS detector started going off then. It didn't seem ethical.

Whatever, I am already annoyed, and just say book it, then leave their office with one goal. Lose weight. If my "life threatening" apnea isn't life threatening enough to get a trial machine urgently and quickly, I'll do what I can, as fast as I can.

I was 259 pounds at the time. When I'm mildly inactive and at least eat right I'm normally about 225, when I go fitness freak mode I get in between 200-205. I call Fitness Factory, Fitness depot, etc... and put $5-6000 into free weights, squat racks, benches, you name it, cost is no expense. I finally have an excuse to build my dream gym, as gyms are closed. It's Covid, so I'm paying full retail, I don't care, enough is enough, I'm tired of being a fatty, embarassed for my wife to be who's in incredible shape, no more excuses. I start working out like a maniac and I lose 25 pounds the first month, and wife says, "You never wake me up with snoring and your not choking....anymore." I can tell as well, I am way fresher every day, and don't have the brain fog.

I finally get to my trial machine pickup appointment at Peak Sleep. They weigh me. The respiratory therapist double takes.... "Ok, I think they recorded your weight wrong." "No sir, I have lost 25-26 pounds in about a month. I'm on a 1500 calorie diet, and working out very heavily 2 hours a night. I also know what I am doing and have done this before when I was heavily into fitness." Hoping to avoid a lecture about rapid weight loss. I also suggest, we re-do the initial sleep study, as my wife says it is no where near as bad as it was. It's like I said nothing, and they wouldn't entertain that option. They say "It never goes away 100% it might reduce 'a bit' but never go away" I'm told. This was BS, because now I'm only lightly snoring, and not choking at all, so that assessment is wrong on their part.

Anyway, I take the test machine home, after paying $200 for a plastic mask I could buy on Amazon for $80. The exact one. Same part number etc. I also could buy it from a medical supply place for $80. I question this, and I'm told "It's not the same, we provide better service." Ok, so it is the "same", you just claim to provide better service. Totally different. Maybe they take it out of the bag better?

Now because they set this thing based on my results from when I was almost 30 pounds heavier, I can't sleep, the pressure is too high. I'm wearing the nose pillow, and every night I'm woken up 10 times from my cheeks puffing up, and air rushing out of my mouth once I can't contain the pressure anymore and my mouth 'pops'. It's an awful experience. So they adjust this by remote, and it gets better, but still doing this 3-4 times a night.

Then I start researching their pricing. They charge $2400 for a machine that can be bought elsewhere for about $800 with a mask, the exact same ones, and start making some calls. The consensus is this. 90% of places believe these sleep clinics do this because most plans cover $2000 for everything. When you add the mask, and the machine, you have $2600. So out of pocket you are only $600 after the benefit. If you buy it off Amazon or another medical supply place, you are $800 out of pocket with no benefit. So they are hoping people claim benefits for the $200 savings. So we can now add questionable billing practices to the list.

I call my benefits provider. "If I buy this on Amazon, or medical supply place, can I still claim it?" Their response, "As long as it is new, and as long as you have a doctors form, yes." Check, check. Now I can add any ancillary stuff too, like a battery pack, and extra masks if needed, as I'm way under $2000.

This thing still isn't right, and is still causing this cheek puffing problem. I finally give up, put the thing back in the box. Upon returning the equipment, I sit down with them, now another 10 pounds lighter, and explain how disappointed I am in how they refused to adjust things and re-assess based on my weight loss, their pricing model and what I heard about it, and also the fact that you terrified me with the extremity of my problem, and then told me to wait a month for a trial machine. I asked "Was telling me how bad my Apnea was, part of the pitch to pay triple for a machine on my benefits, I could get elsewhere at a fair price?" They tried to say their machine was better because they supported it, better, but I also gave them the analogy back, "I sell certified pre-owned certified VW's to my customers, as they are looked at by a VW mechanic, re-conned with VW parts, and have to be the cream of the crop used cars. I might get another 5% for my cars, not 300%"

I was asked to sign a form declining further treatment at that point, and happily did so.

At this moment, I now sit at 215 with my 205 goal in sight, and have almost completely stopped snoring. So if there's any morale to the story, lose weight first, before you commit to a Darth Vader sleeping device for the rest of your life. It may just do the trick. I also suspect everyone has been told how extreme their apnea is as well. I could understand a couple hundred bucks more, that's fair, but triple the price? GTFO. Also buy your equipment elsewhere, these guys are bandits, and are selling you no different than a scummy car dealer.

I should know, being a scummy car dealer and all.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’ve started trying a CPAP machine to treat apnea. I’ve adapted reasonably well so far - it’s been just under a week - and the tech has seen a dramatic reduction in apnea events via remote monitoring. I still feel like a zombie half the day though. Others here have said what a huge difference it made to them - how long did it take to notice improvements in energy and wakefulness?

I started seeing noticeable results after about a week. Mainly because I kept pulling it off in the middle of the night for the first couple of days.

[Deviaant]

Originally Posted by pylon

This is a wall of text, but I suggest you read it before going to Peak.

I was bad, like real bad. Choking, gasping, even woke up and puked a couple times from the choking. My wife is super worried I'm gonna die, as it got so bad. I had a dentist appointment, and had to be sat up 3 or four times as my airway kept closing, so the dentist asks if I have trouble sleeping, and suggests a sleep clinic as well. I don't want to die of choking to death so it was finally time to book an appointment, I chose Peak.

I finally have the sleep study done after being re-booked 3 times, always at the last second, all three times. This isn't starting well. In the face to face appointment, I'm told I'm a fat f@#$ which I don't disagree with, and is likely contributing. I take home the testing machine and it turns out I was 88 events per hour after wearing the testing machine for a night.

Then I had to go for the advanced study in the vaccum chamber etc.... and told how bad I was, "severe apnea", you could choke to death, worst they've seen in months, then get told, we'll make you an appointment for a trial machine a month from now. "Ok, you are saying my life is in danger, but wait another month for a machine?" My BS detector started going off then. It didn't seem ethical.

Whatever, I am already annoyed, and just say book it, then leave their office with one goal. Lose weight. If my "life threatening" apnea isn't life threatening enough to get a trial machine urgently and quickly, I'll do what I can, as fast as I can.

I was 259 pounds at the time. When I'm mildly inactive and at least eat right I'm normally about 225, when I go fitness freak mode I get in between 200-205. I call Fitness Factory, Fitness depot, etc... and put $5-6000 into free weights, squat racks, benches, you name it, cost is no expense. I finally have an excuse to build my dream gym, as gyms are closed. It's Covid, so I'm paying full retail, I don't care, enough is enough, I'm tired of being a fatty, embarassed for my wife to be who's in incredible shape, no more excuses. I start working out like a maniac and I lose 25 pounds the first month, and wife says, "You never wake me up with snoring and your not choking....anymore." I can tell as well, I am way fresher every day, and don't have the brain fog.

I finally get to my trial machine pickup appointment at Peak Sleep. They weigh me. The respiratory therapist double takes.... "Ok, I think they recorded your weight wrong." "No sir, I have lost 25-26 pounds in about a month. I'm on a 1500 calorie diet, and working out very heavily 2 hours a night. I also know what I am doing and have done this before when I was heavily into fitness." Hoping to avoid a lecture about rapid weight loss. I also suggest, we re-do the initial sleep study, as my wife says it is no where near as bad as it was. It's like I said nothing, and they wouldn't entertain that option. They say "It never goes away 100% it might reduce 'a bit' but never go away" I'm told. This was BS, because now I'm only lightly snoring, and not choking at all, so that assessment is wrong on their part.

Anyway, I take the test machine home, after paying $200 for a plastic mask I could buy on Amazon for $80. The exact one. Same part number etc. I also could buy it from a medical supply place for $80. I question this, and I'm told "It's not the same, we provide better service." Ok, so it is the "same", you just claim to provide better service. Totally different. Maybe they take it out of the bag better?

Now because they set this thing based on my results from when I was almost 30 pounds heavier, I can't sleep, the pressure is too high. I'm wearing the nose pillow, and every night I'm woken up 10 times from my cheeks puffing up, and air rushing out of my mouth once I can't contain the pressure anymore and my mouth 'pops'. It's an awful experience. So they adjust this by remote, and it gets better, but still doing this 3-4 times a night.

Then I start researching their pricing. They charge $2400 for a machine that can be bought elsewhere for about $800 with a mask, the exact same ones, and start making some calls. The consensus is this. 90% of places believe these sleep clinics do this because most plans cover $2000 for everything. When you add the mask, and the machine, you have $2600. So out of pocket you are only $600 after the benefit. If you buy it off Amazon or another medical supply place, you are $800 out of pocket with no benefit. So they are hoping people claim benefits for the $200 savings. So we can now add questionable billing practices to the list.

I call my benefits provider. "If I buy this on Amazon, or medical supply place, can I still claim it?" Their response, "As long as it is new, and as long as you have a doctors form, yes." Check, check. Now I can add any ancillary stuff too, like a battery pack, and extra masks if needed, as I'm way under $2000.

This thing still isn't right, and is still causing this cheek puffing problem. I finally give up, put the thing back in the box. Upon returning the equipment, I sit down with them, now another 10 pounds lighter, and explain how disappointed I am in how they refused to adjust things and re-assess based on my weight loss, their pricing model and what I heard about it, and also the fact that you terrified me with the extremity of my problem, and then told me to wait a month for a trial machine. I asked "Was telling me how bad my Apnea was, part of the pitch to pay triple for a machine on my benefits, I could get elsewhere at a fair price?" They tried to say their machine was better because they supported it, better, but I also gave them the analogy back, "I sell certified pre-owned certified VW's to my customers, as they are looked at by a VW mechanic, re-conned with VW parts, and have to be the cream of the crop used cars. I might get another 5% for my cars, not 300%"

I was asked to sign a form declining further treatment at that point, and happily did so.

At this moment, I now sit at 215 with my 205 goal in sight, and have almost completely stopped snoring. So if there's any morale to the story, lose weight first, before you commit to a Darth Vader sleeping device for the rest of your life. It may just do the trick. I also suspect everyone has been told how extreme their apnea is as well. I could understand a couple hundred bucks more, that's fair, but triple the price? GTFO. Also buy your equipment elsewhere, these guys are bandits, and are selling you no different than a scummy car dealer.

I should know, being a scummy car dealer and all.

I had a similar infuriating situation with RANA. When I found out about the insane marked up pricing I was shocked. I also asked my provider if I could buy off of Amazon for a fraction of the price and got the same answer you did. How these places are allowed to price gouge they way they do is beyond me.

[FlameOn]

Couple of weeks for me before I was feeling a lot better and more awake. Past year w/ work from home I've been working out a lot more and lost 25lbs so I'm at average for my height but I still feel groggy in the late evenings if I skip a day using the CPAP machine. At least I can sleep all the way through the night without the machine if I have to.

[Jacks]

Lot of worst case scenarios in this post.

Originally Posted by pylon

we'll make you an appointment for a trial machine a month from now. "Ok, you are saying my life is in danger, but wait another month for a machine?" My BS detector started going off then. It didn't seem ethical.

I booked an appointment, had a sleep test then had a loaner machine all in less than a week, that was with RANA.

Originally Posted by pylon

Whatever, I am already annoyed, and just say book it, then leave their office with one goal. Lose weight. If my "life threatening" apnea isn't life threatening enough to get a trial machine urgently and quickly, I'll do what I can, as fast as I can.

I was 259 pounds at the time. When I'm mildly inactive and at least eat right I'm normally about 225, when I go fitness freak mode I get in between 200-205. I call Fitness Factory, Fitness depot, etc... and put $5-6000 into free weights, squat racks, benches, you name it, cost is no expense. I finally have an excuse to build my dream gym, as gyms are closed. It's Covid, so I'm paying full retail, I don't care, enough is enough, I'm tired of being a fatty, embarassed for my wife to be who's in incredible shape, no more excuses. I start working out like a maniac and I lose 25 pounds the first month, and wife says, "You never wake me up with snoring and your not choking....anymore." I can tell as well, I am way fresher every day, and don't have the brain fog.

I finally get to my trial machine pickup appointment at Peak Sleep. They weigh me. The respiratory therapist double takes.... "Ok, I think they recorded your weight wrong." "No sir, I have lost 25-26 pounds in about a month. I'm on a 1500 calorie diet, and working out very heavily 2 hours a night. I also know what I am doing and have done this before when I was heavily into fitness." Hoping to avoid a lecture about rapid weight loss. I also suggest, we re-do the initial sleep study, as my wife says it is no where near as bad as it was. It's like I said nothing, and they wouldn't entertain that option. They say "It never goes away 100% it might reduce 'a bit' but never go away" I'm told. This was BS, because now I'm only lightly snoring, and not choking at all, so that assessment is wrong on their part.

Great that you managed to lose a lot of weight quick but it's foolish to advise others to ignore the problem in hopes that they will also be successful in dropping a lot of weight in a short time.

Originally Posted by pylon

Anyway, I take the test machine home, after paying $200 for a plastic mask I could buy on Amazon for $80. The exact one. Same part number etc. I also could buy it from a medical supply place for $80. I question this, and I'm told "It's not the same, we provide better service." Ok, so it is the "same", you just claim to provide better service. Totally different. Maybe they take it out of the bag better?

Now because they set this thing based on my results from when I was almost 30 pounds heavier, I can't sleep, the pressure is too high. I'm wearing the nose pillow, and every night I'm woken up 10 times from my cheeks puffing up, and air rushing out of my mouth once I can't contain the pressure anymore and my mouth 'pops'. It's an awful experience. So they adjust this by remote, and it gets better, but still doing this 3-4 times a night.

They definitely should have given you a new test but I think you are a rare exception that they aren't used to.

Originally Posted by pylon

Then I start researching their pricing. They charge $2400 for a machine that can be bought elsewhere for about $800 with a mask, the exact same ones, and start making some calls. The consensus is this. 90% of places believe these sleep clinics do this because most plans cover $2000 for everything. When you add the mask, and the machine, you have $2600. So out of pocket you are only $600 after the benefit. If you buy it off Amazon or another medical supply place, you are $800 out of pocket with no benefit. So they are hoping people claim benefits for the $200 savings. So we can now add questionable billing practices to the list.

I call my benefits provider. "If I buy this on Amazon, or medical supply place, can I still claim it?" Their response, "As long as it is new, and as long as you have a doctors form, yes." Check, check. Now I can add any ancillary stuff too, like a battery pack, and extra masks if needed, as I'm way under $2000.

This is just dumb, these clinics usually do their work for no charge or way less then it would cost to stay in business, they make money off of selling the equipment, nothing wrong with that. I can buy floor mats, undercoating or a box spray from a 3rd party at a huge discount, does that make you a scammer as a dealership?

Originally Posted by pylon

This thing still isn't right, and is still causing this cheek puffing problem. I finally give up, put the thing back in the box. Upon returning the equipment, I sit down with them, now another 10 pounds lighter, and explain how disappointed I am in how they refused to adjust things and re-assess based on my weight loss, their pricing model and what I heard about it, and also the fact that you terrified me with the extremity of my problem, and then told me to wait a month for a trial machine. I asked "Was telling me how bad my Apnea was, part of the pitch to pay triple for a machine on my benefits, I could get elsewhere at a fair price?" They tried to say their machine was better because they supported it, better, but I also gave them the analogy back, "I sell certified pre-owned certified VW's to my customers, as they are looked at by a VW mechanic, re-conned with VW parts, and have to be the cream of the crop used cars. I might get another 5% for my cars, not 300%"

I was asked to sign a form declining further treatment at that point, and happily did so.

At this moment, I now sit at 215 with my 205 goal in sight, and have almost completely stopped snoring. So if there's any morale to the story, lose weight first, before you commit to a Darth Vader sleeping device for the rest of your life. It may just do the trick. I also suspect everyone has been told how extreme their apnea is as well. I could understand a couple hundred bucks more, that's fair, but triple the price? GTFO. Also buy your equipment elsewhere, these guys are bandits, and are selling you no different than a scummy car dealer.

I should know, being a scummy car dealer and all.

Horrible advice, maybe you had a bad experience but this is just wrong. By all means people should look at losing weight, if that is the cause of their apnea, but they should also look at a CPAP solution in the meantime since most people never reach their fitness goals.


Edit: And after giving them a little slice you can get way better prices online but if you never buy anything from the sleep clinics they will either go out of business or just start charging a lot for appointments, nothing is free in life.

[Erick Estrada]

My equipment is covered by insurance to I buy my stuff from RHS but I can understand if people don't have coverage that shopping around would be the way to go. I had to try several masks to get one that worked for me but the results have been a game changer for me.

[zukes]

I don't think that I have posted in this thread yet. I was diagnosed a few years back after my wife kept telling me to go and get checked. I snored, woke up gasping for air. I would doze off driving, I was irritable all the time, it was awful.

I also have a reflux problem and it would cause me to wake up and puke, even though I was on medication for the reflux. The medication would stop the burning, but not the fluid from coming up. If I had even a couple of drinks at night, I would be up. If I ate too late or too much, I would be up.

I got tested, was waking up 111 times per hour, very severe case! It was only an at home test (in hospital tests were booked up for 6+ months) and the doctor broke protocol and immediately proscribed me a CPAP with the promise that I would go and do the clinical test still to cover her butt.

My life changed immediately. I sleep amazingly well, my apneas are now under 1 per hour according to my machine. I stopped having the reflux issues as the sleep has allowed the restorative part of the medicine work. I am not tired during the day unless I earn it. Hangovers are almost non-existent. I have lost 30 + pounds while not changing anything else in my lifestyle. My wife would say I am still irritable, but I feel like it is much less.

I found wearing the mask no trouble at all. I used to sleep on my stomach, so I had to adjust to sleeping on my side, but the first night of real sleep made that real easy. I also used to have lower back issues, likely from sleeping on my stomach and the extra weight. Now my lower back issues are gone as well.

[Erick Estrada]

Yeah another bonus of CPAP machines is that they reduce hangovers greatly.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by pylon

This thing still isn't right, and is still causing this cheek puffing problem. I finally give up, put the thing back in the box. Upon returning the equipment, I sit down with them, now another 10 pounds lighter, and explain how disappointed I am in how they refused to adjust things and re-assess based on my weight loss, their pricing model and what I heard about it, and also the fact that you terrified me with the extremity of my problem, and then told me to wait a month for a trial machine. I asked "Was telling me how bad my Apnea was, part of the pitch to pay triple for a machine on my benefits, I could get elsewhere at a fair price?" They tried to say their machine was better because they supported it, better, but I also gave them the analogy back, "I sell certified pre-owned certified VW's to my customers, as they are looked at by a VW mechanic, re-conned with VW parts, and have to be the cream of the crop used cars. I might get another 5% for my cars, not 300%"

You have to be getting more than a 5% premium on your cars or you wouldn't be in business. I've been to Northland VW. I know you have sales staff, financing staff, administrative staff, janitorial staff, and on it goes just to service the used car side. Those positions all need to be paid for out of a premium you sell your cars for over what I could find the exact same car elsewhere.

Your dealership would also retain lawyers, accountants, insurance agents, and other professionals. You pay for electricity, and Internet, and gas, and water/sewer. You pay municipal, provincial and federal taxes. You pay for the real estate on which the building you operate out of sits. You also pay for the building you're sitting in right now and the desk, chair, computer and phone you use. All this money comes from the difference between what the car is worth versus the value you add to the car via the service you offer.

Personally, I don't need a sales guy when I go to a dealership. I also don't need a finance guy because I buy cars in cash. I could also do without the hot chick sitting at the desk when I walk in. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred I know more about the car I'm there to view than the sales guy.

But...

I understand that some people need financing, so I can see why there is a finance guy there to arrange a loan. I understand some people don't have a clue about cars and appreciate the help a sales guy adds. I get that a smiling 25-year-old girl makes people feel good when they walk in the door, so I can see why every dealership seems to employee a greeter.

You seem to take pride in your work and I assume you don't see yourself as there to milk the customer for all you can, but rather I'd wager you see yourself as a good employee while also offering a service to the customer that is worth the premium they pay to keep you employed.

That's great you don't need the service of a sleep apnea clinic and are comfortable buying online. I think it'd be easy to argue you actually did need their service, though, as the cheek puffing thing would have been solved with a full face mask or a chin strap to keep your mouth closed, but let's ignore that for now.

Some people don't have $1000 in their account to pay for a machine with cash on Amazon, so are more than happy to take advantage of the financing services at a sleep clinic. They also prefer the clinic handles dealing with their insurance company directly for a smoother, less stressful buying experience. They also would prefer the respiratory therapist works with them to adjust their machine versus 'winging it' with the machine and all its settings off Amazon. They also operate a business where they have all the overhead your dealership has, and they also want to pay their hard-working staff a reasonable salary with benefits.

I'm on my third machine and been on sleep therapy for over 10 years. A new machine every five years on insurance is nothing to me. Every five years I go to the clinic to get my new machine and that's the only time I really get a check up on how things are going and an opportunity for the respiratory therapist to look at how I'm doing. I mean, without the machine I'd probably be shaving 10 years off my life, so it's hardly a huge expense to keep me going. Definitely a lot cheaper than buying a home gym like your brilliant suggestion.

You Karening in there to lecture them on running their business is beyond ignorant. I hope you're exaggerating what you did because it's abhorrent. You didn't have a good experience, but you can't condemn the entire business based on your one anecdotal experience. Not to mention you didn't even finish what you started with them, thus denying them the chance to make you happy.

And surely you can't just be suggesting everyone buy a home gym, cut their diet down to 1500 calories per day and work out two hours a night. Like, that's great you have that kind of money, time and energy, but good luck with that once you have a kid for a year or so. You'll be fat again and be right back sitting in that clinic with your tail between your legs.

Or, go buy on Amazon. A robot will grab a CPAP off a pallet rack and a minimum wage guy will deliver it to your door. Congrats! You got it cheaper, but there won't be anybody there to set it up, explain how to use a mask (if your cheeks are puffing and then air popping out your mouth, you are doing everything wrong and not creating the closed pressure system), there will be no opportunity to try different machines, masks, hoses, etc. These therapists have endless patience to try things out to get you sorted. Plus, I like supporting local when I can afford to knowing I pay a premium, but appreciating the improved service and support I receive.

Straight up, you owe them an apology.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Lot of worst case scenarios in this post.


I booked an appointment, had a sleep test then had a loaner machine all in less than a week, that was with RANA.

I booked, was cancelled 2 times, the day of the appointment within a month. I was "lucky" enough to get in on the third scheduled appointment which I booked my entire day around all three times. The lack of respect for my time and schedule was pretty annoying.

Originally Posted by Jacks

Great that you managed to lose a lot of weight quick but it's foolish to advise others to ignore the problem in hopes that they will also be successful in dropping a lot of weight in a short time.

I never advised anyone of that. I said it is what I did. I was so annoyed with the bad service and delays of this place, that I opted to take matters into my own hands. From the time I made my first call, to actually getting a device to try, it was 4 months. Which in my opinion, is unacceptable.

Originally Posted by Jacks

They definitely should have given you a new test but I think you are a rare exception that they aren't used to.

As their patient, when I tell them bluntly, without anecdotal, but actual evidence, "My situation has changed dramatically, and I think it's smart we re-do the initial study."

- It is obvious things are dramatically different, as even the respiratory therapist double takes when he sees my weight change.

- I walked in there with multiple recordings of my snoring and deep sleep state, as we thought that would be good for them to hear. They were totally disinterested in hearing this.

- As a patient I am telling them, "I know my body, and my energy levels. I know the signals when I've had a bad night. Sore/swollen throat, dry mouth, headache in the morning etc.... I am feeling that with less and less frequency. Should we maybe re-assess where I am at considering I was initially tested in the worst shape of my life?"

Originally Posted by Jacks

This is just dumb, these clinics usually do their work for no charge or way less then it would cost to stay in business, they make money off of selling the equipment, nothing wrong with that. I can buy floor mats, undercoating or a box spray from a 3rd party at a huge discount, does that make you a scammer as a dealership?

This is fair. However, I even asked them, would it not make more sense, as a business, for you to offer a consult appointment at a charge say $5-600 with no machine, and a package price where you offer the machine. This is the problem, the only time they win and make money, is when they run you down the buy a CPAP machine funnel. So how many machines are being prescribed to people that do not necessarily require them? Don't kid yourself, they have only an interest to getting you on a CPAP, if they don't they make nothing.

As to your second point, my customers are perfectly free to get their add-ons elsewhere. As a dealership we stay very competitive, and make sure we are priced competitive to the aftermarket. I charge a bit more for a 3M job on a car, but it's nowhere near 3 X the price, maybe 15% - 20% more.

Originally Posted by Jacks

Horrible advice, maybe you had a bad experience but this is just wrong. By all means people should look at losing weight, if that is the cause of their apnea, but they should also look at a CPAP solution in the meantime since most people never reach their fitness goals.

I never told anyone to just only lose weight. I did say to give it a shot, before you commit to this for the rest of your life. Of course use the machine in the mean time. My problem was, I was never given an opportunity to use a machine that matched my condition. The best analogy was I was over prescribed. Losing weight took me from choking and gasping, to regular old log sawing. And the irony is, if it wasn't for the bad service I received, and how annoyed I got with waiting and cancelled appointments, I probably wouldn't have just jumped back on the get fit horse, and just took matters into my own hands.

Originally Posted by Jacks

Edit: And after giving them a little slice you can get way better prices online but if you never buy anything from the sleep clinics they will either go out of business or just start charging a lot for appointments, nothing is free in life.

I agree 100%. But when you make this a straight up for profit business, you are now in chiropractor territory, which is dubious at best. Chiropractors want you on the hook, for life. They want those monthly visits to keep their doors open. The biggest failure in my opinion, is the fact this isn't controlled and prescribed by AHS. I have no issues compensating them for their work, however their business model doesn't assure anyone of the right treatment. It's CPAP = profit. No CPAP is nothing. The only incentive for them as a business is to get you on the machine and I would bet there is a lot of people using these things, from clinics prescribing them to "Stay in business." Over treatment and over billing is why the American system is where it's at.

I would have zero issue if it went:

Consult appointment/sleep study: $600, $800 whatever a fair cost is.

Machine: At a fair market rate.

That way you are not tying selling the machine solely to the clinics profitability, and therefore forcing them to gouge you for it.

This is what struck me as odd was this. There is 4 people at work on a CPAP, and I have a couple friends on them, and every single person was told "You have a severe case of sleep Apnea, one of the worst we've ever seen!" It's actually a meme here. I have worse sleep apnea! No I do!

I am wondering if this hyperbole is used to make sure you get on the machine.

In closing, if you have Sleep Apnea, please, visit your doctor, I am not suggesting otherwise. However, in the time you are waiting to get your appointment, it may be prudent to try and lose some weight and see if it helps. In the 4 months I had to wait, to actually try one of the machines, I managed to get rid of the 'major' symptoms of it, and went from choking and gasping, to general log sawing by dropping 40ish pounds.

So if I have anything to be thankful to the sleep clinic for, it's drawing things out so long, I decided to take steps on my own to improve my situation as I didn't feel the service I was offered was adequate.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

You have to be getting more than a 5% premium on your cars or you wouldn't be in business. I've been to Northland VW. I know you have sales staff, financing staff, administrative staff, janitorial staff, and on it goes just to service the used car side. Those positions all need to be paid for out of a premium you sell your cars for over what I could find the exact same car elsewhere.

Historical average front end margin on a used car is about 5.8%. Average price is about $26,000. You make about $1500 a car. That's how this business works. Financing, insurance and warranties are a different story, but most dealers actually operate at a loss on new and about 5% on used. It's what needs to be done to stay competitive.

Originally Posted by Sliver

And surely you can't just be suggesting everyone buy a home gym, cut their diet down to 1500 calories per day and work out two hours a night. Like, that's great you have that kind of money, time and energy, but good luck with that once you have a kid for a year or so. You'll be fat again and be right back sitting in that clinic with your tail between your legs.

I'll disagree there. I got into tome terrible habits through the pandemic with nothing to do, and nowhere to go. Biggest mistake I made was buying a smoker lol. I was over eating and not exercising, and my weight ballooned. No sir, I won't let myself go back to that space.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Or, go buy on Amazon. A robot will grab a CPAP off a pallet rack and a minimum wage guy will deliver it to your door. Congrats! You got it cheaper, but there won't be anybody there to set it up, explain how to use a mask (if your cheeks are puffing and then air popping out your mouth, you are doing everything wrong and not creating the closed pressure system), there will be no opportunity to try different machines, masks, hoses, etc. These therapists have endless patience to try things out to get you sorted. Plus, I like supporting local when I can afford to knowing I pay a premium, but appreciating the improved service and support I receive.

Straight up, you owe them an apology.

This was the crux of the problem. I got none of this. They put me on an over pressurized machine, they didn't have the patience to re-assess my study when I explicitly knew things had changed and I dropped weight. I was told they would charge me another $200 for another mask, to try something different when then they denied that when I returned everything or said it was a 'misunderstanding'.....

I actually would have been better off ordering off Amazon, as I didn't get any service. I felt the service was terrible. I am the easiest guy on the planet to please. I don't want stuff sugar coated, just cut to the chase. If I get bad food at a restaurant, it's not worth complaining. Whatever, every cook has a bad day. I had a brand new motorcycle I was picking up dropped by the lot kid, right in front of me, the day I was picking it up. I shrugged it off and asked them how long to rob a new bar end and fairing off another one. It's not my style to be upset, as I spend a lot of my time, trying to make things right with customers, and make my own fair share of mistakes. The experience I had with them was terrible.

For piece of mind, I am going to be trying a different clinic and hopefully have a better experience, but what I experienced there was not good service.

[81MC]

So my buddy strongly suggests I go for a sleep test. The more I look into it, this could be the real cause of the symptoms I presented that led to a ‘depression’ diagnosis - tired all the time, seriously irritable, constant headaches. But #### do I not want to need a machine to sleep.

[nik-]

"cost is no expense" is a new one to me. I assumed that cost was literally the expense. Who knew?