Brad Treliving needs to go

[ComixZone]

I posted this in the trades rumour/speculation thread as well, but this image (from reddit) captures picks made in the first two rounds during the last three drafts.

How has Treliving built a team that has had no success, but also leveraged the future to a dangerous degree?

Spoiler!

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I posted this in the trades rumour/speculation thread as well, but this image (from reddit) captures picks made in the first two rounds during the last three drafts.

How has Treliving built a team that has had no success, but also leveraged the future to a dangerous degree?

Spoiler!

So, of the bottom 10 there are 4 cup champs of the last decade, 3 conference champs of the last decade, a few of them also recent president's trophy winners, then there is the Coyotes, the Jackets and the Flames....

I guess Brad brought what he learned about building a contender with him from his time in Arizona?

[Strange Brew]

We have some great draft picks with guys like Ruzicka, Phillips and Pettersen. Guys who seem to be outperforming their draft selection status.

But all are real longshots to make the NHL.

It's a shame Fox didn't want to sign here. There are just no organizational strengths from which to make any kind of changes. It's why Kylington gets tossed into every trade proposal imaginable.

[Manhattanboy]

This season is a write off now but I don’t really care anymore. Too bad we are just burning years on contacts.

Tre has to go now. The future is bleak and I don’t trust him to make the right moves.

Someone said Darryl is not here for a rebuild. That means retooling with trades for established NHL players. Again I don’t see Tre being the guy to do this.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This season is a write off now but I don’t really care anymore. Too bad we are just burning years on contacts.

Tre has to go now. The future is bleak and I don’t trust him to make the right moves.

Someone said Darryl is not here for a rebuild. That means retooling with trades for established NHL players. Again I don’t see Tre being the guy to do this.

He shouldn't be the gm for a rebuild considering he oversaw a substantial portion of this team building cycle, outside of the bottoming out part.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This season is a write off now but I don’t really care anymore. Too bad we are just burning years on contacts.

Tre has to go now. The future is bleak and I don’t trust him to make the right moves.

Someone said Darryl is not here for a rebuild. That means retooling with trades for established NHL players. Again I don’t see Tre being the guy to do this.

He brought in who is currently our best forward, and top 3 defence man, via trade.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

He brought in who is currently our best forward, and top 3 defence man, via trade.

Yep, the Flames biggest issues are mostly with guys that were here before Tre and have totally dropped off the face of the earth

Backlund
Monahan
Gio
Gaudreau compared to his peak

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I posted this in the trades rumour/speculation thread as well, but this image (from reddit) captures picks made in the first two rounds during the last three drafts.

How has Treliving built a team that has had no success, but also leveraged the future to a dangerous degree?

Spoiler!

And this doesn't even include the wasted 3rd and 4th round picks that the Flames used on players like Fantenberg, Gustafsson, and Forbert.

Really, I think the Flames should have to make it past round one for once before management even thinks about rentals.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

So, of the bottom 10 there are 4 cup champs of the last decade, 3 conference champs of the last decade, a few of them also recent president's trophy winners, then there is the Coyotes, the Jackets and the Flames....

I guess Brad brought what he learned about building a contender with him from his time in Arizona?

I think he tied himself to the core of Johnny/Mony/Gio/Backlund too much and he needs to go down with his ship.

Where many of us were suggesting trading high on some of those guys 2 seasons back, he played that card and lost.
It wasn't an unreasonable card to play but it proved to be wrong and Mr accountability needs his accountability.

[CliffFletcher]

There’s no short-term fix for this team. Unless the goal is just to get into the playoffs and hope for a cinderella run, the job of rebuilding the asset-base and talent will take 3+ years.

[Erick Estrada]

Darryl will get more out of this roster but the ceiling is low as the aren't a cup contender. As said above there's really no quick fix as they don't have any elite talent in the pipeline and most of the players on the roster have peaked. Gaudreau is UFA next offseason and Tkachuk is starting to make more money than he's worth making it hard to justify going forward with either of them so it may be a matter of taking a step back in hopes of rebuilding the prospect base and changing the locker room culture.

[1qqaaz]

If Nashville fired David Poile, and he were willing to come to Calgary, would you fire Treliving and replace him with Poile?

[Strange Brew]

Poile would be an incredible POHO. Bring him back full circle to where he started his NHL career. Certainly a guy with a long term vision and not big on shortcuts.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There’s no short-term fix for this team. Unless the goal is just to get into the playoffs and hope for a cinderella run, the job of rebuilding the asset-base and talent will take 3+ years.

It's an interesting conundrum. From a schedule perspective, I think it will be a very bad look to enter the new arena (2024 season?) at the bottoming out stage of a rebuild.

With big time decisions needing to be made as early as this offseason regarding Gaudreau (last year before UFA), Tkachuk (last year before RFA), Giordano (last year before UFA), not to mention Monahan decision the year after. then you add the expansion draft and the frozen cap teams are facing, this offseason is just extremely hard to even predict.

It's also just a even harder time to navigate building around the draft, where this year and next year's draft may be even more random due to the limited set of scouting eyes on the draft class.

Brad treliving, has been extremely patient with this core (to a fault in my opinion, but definitely debatable). Unfortunately for him, as time has elapsed, and the fact that changes need to be made becoming more and more clear, the entire NHL player movement environment has grinned to a halt, through never seen before and unprecedented issues.

It's easy for a fan, like myself, to wave my fist around seeking trading out all the vets/contracts, and building around some high picks, but I think this is an offseason where you simply won't be able to do this, or at least do it right.

Sutter, is a better coach than ward by a mile, but isn't going to be able to get a contender level team out of this group. Unfortunately, with him being brought in so late in this shortened season, they'll be hard pressed to be able to get into a playoff spot in my opinion.

It's a tough time for this flames management team, but they're getting cornered into a hard place....

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I posted this in the trades rumour/speculation thread as well, but this image (from reddit) captures picks made in the first two rounds during the last three drafts.

How has Treliving built a team that has had no success, but also leveraged the future to a dangerous degree?

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

So, of the bottom 10 there are 4 cup champs of the last decade, 3 conference champs of the last decade, a few of them also recent president's trophy winners, then there is the Coyotes, the Jackets and the Flames....

I guess Brad brought what he learned about building a contender with him from his time in Arizona?

Again, more reason for Flames to fire Treliving and bring in someone else for this team. He had an opportunity to wait out a rebuild probably, but screwed the pooch on that. Give someone else the opportunity that would value patience and investment more. There's no way the Flames draft/prospect base should be that bare considering how mediocre they've been during the whole time Treliving been here.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Again, more reason for Flames to fire Treliving and bring in someone else for this team. He had an opportunity to wait out a rebuild probably, but screwed the pooch on that. Give someone else the opportunity that would value patience and investment more. There's no way the Flames draft/prospect base should be that bare considering how mediocre they've been during the whole time Treliving been here.

I am not convinced that this is true. It looks more likely to me that Treliving's expenditures over the course of his tenure have accumulated in an effort to deliver ownership what they wanted—a contending team now. Will a different GM be able to convince the Flames owners to embark on a full-scale long-term rebuild? I am sceptical.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am not convinced that this is true. It looks more likely to me that Treliving's expenditures over the course of his tenure have accumulated in an effort to deliver ownership what they wanted—a contending team now. Will a different GM be able to convince the Flames owners to embark on a full-scale long-term rebuild? I am sceptical.

What gives you the impression that he was pressed to move up the timeline, rather than it being his call? Unless there's some form of media, there's no way to know one way or the other. So for me I would assume it was Treliving that felt like making moves for Hamonic at expense of early round picks were completely from his point of view that the team's window was then rather than upstairs encouragement.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What gives you the impression that he was pressed to move up the timeline, rather than it being his call?

History.

[SilverKast]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I posted this in the trades rumour/speculation thread as well, but this image (from reddit) captures picks made in the first two rounds during the last three drafts.

How has Treliving built a team that has had no success, but also leveraged the future to a dangerous degree?

Spoiler!

Personally I don't like trading away firsts and seconds. Although our drafting hasn't been great over the last 10 years it's hard to hit on anything if there aren't any picks to use.

It'd be nice if we had coaching or systems that allowed players to play above their potential - whereby you could sell high on some of them and maybe build up some draft capital. Instead we have our 5th coach in 7 years or something like that - so we have almost the opposite scenario.

Add in a trade like Hamonic and it's no wonder our cupboards are bare. I like the slow and steady approach of retaining our high picks, investing in scouting and trying to draft and develop well, and then maybe the odd free agency addition (hopefully not a Neal or Brouwer).

As it stands we could be in for a rough couple of years while we try to build back up. Or we keep thinking we're close and trading away picks...

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am not convinced that this is true. It looks more likely to me that Treliving's expenditures over the course of his tenure have accumulated in an effort to deliver ownership what they wanted—a contending team now. Will a different GM be able to convince the Flames owners to embark on a full-scale long-term rebuild? I am sceptical.

You can't fire the owners. As such, if you're correct, that still leads me to believe they need to replace the GM. Hopefully whoever they choose is more effective in pushing a more patient approach and is able to get the necessary buy in from the higher ups.