Alberta Politics Thread v2

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I wouldn’t.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I really would love to see how the NDP would do with a booming economy.

They'd spend like drunken sailors. It was bad enough during these past 4 years but giving them a booming economy would be like giving a kid money in a candy store.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Dion

They'd spend like drunken sailors. It was bad enough during these past 4 years but giving them a booming economy would be like giving a kid money in a candy store.

Do you really know that, or are you just saying that because it's an easy response to a hypothetical question?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Do you really know that, or are you just saying that because it's an easy response to a hypothetical question?

Look at the debt they've created for this province and the 4 credit down grades. With all that Notley has said she doesn't plan to cut back on spending should she get re elected. This is all during a recession in the economy. If the economy started to boom she'd want to invest more into her social programs and green energy projects.

Look at what the old PC's that ran this province for 44 years did. They spent like drunken sailors leaving the province with nothing in the Hertiage Trust fund when they were defeated. The NDP would be no different.

The UCP could be the same. Time will tell if that happens.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Do you really know that, or are you just saying that because it's an easy response to a hypothetical question?

Politics is like relationships, the true test comes in times of adversity, and in that regard, the NDP have shown they are unable or unwilling to control government spending.
What makes you think they'd be willing/able to control their spending, even with a booming economy? or, are you just thinking increased taxes/royalties would be able to outrun their spending?

The one thing I think we can all agree on, a booming economy would have been a better time to conduct a royalty review, increase taxes, phase out coal, impose a carbon tax... trying to do all of those things at the onset of the downturn only exasperated Alberta's/Albertans struggles and all but assured the NDP would not have a booming economy to work with.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Dion

Look at what the old PC's that ran this province for 44 years did. They spent like drunken sailors leaving the province with nothing in the Hertiage Trust fund when they were defeated. The NDP would be no different.

The UCP could be the same. Time will tell if that happens.

So you’re certain that the NDP would do what the PCs did during a boom(despite the fact that the NDP have done the complete opposite of what those former PCs did during recessions) yet you’re unsure about whether or not the UCP (the party that was created by merging that former PC party with the wildrose party) would follow suit? I’m not sure that post passes the smell test Dion.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I really would love to see how the NDP would do with a booming economy.

They were continually criticized for nonsensical budgets where their revenues were based on guessing and over estimation. Then they would spend based on that.


So no thanks.


4 credit downgrades mainly based on the mechanics of their economic policies makes them dangerous as hell.

[spotthefan]

So many are wanting “restraint” in the budget but I doubt it’s actually what people want in the end.

Show me where to “restrain” spending. What should be lost? Cut?


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[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by spotthefan

So many are wanting “restraint” in the budget but I doubt it’s actually what people want in the end.

Show me where to “restrain” spending. What should be lost? Cut?


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At the end of the day, its going to have to happen, and its likely going to have to come from the operational side of the budget, which is wages and salaries and keeping the lights on.

We can talk all day about a revenue problem, but this provinces now has high unemployment in the private sector, while the government has actually grown the public sector payroll. Investment is vanishing in this province because of what is basically a war against the energy sector.

Alberta is going to have to make some tough choices, most of the cuts are going to need to probably come not from the front line workers like teachers, but from the administrative side of thing.

We can't proceed to the point where debt servicing becomes the provinces largest social program.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Alberta is going to have to make some tough choices, most of the cuts are going to need to probably come not from the front line workers like teachers, but from the administrative side of thing.



We can't proceed to the point where debt servicing becomes the provinces largest social program.

I agree there needs to be clear plans for balanced budgets.

And you can say the cuts won’t come from the frontline but the reality is, there just isn’t that much to cut. If you cut salaries from admin and “management” in the public service, saving 500 millions would be generous.

Nurses, doctors, teachers have all been well compensated in the province - like every other profession and trade in the province. Fact is we are still highest in average earnings in Canada across sectors.

Those unemployed and hurting the most are 18-24 uneducated and untrained males. Oil workers. Reality is that those jobs aren’t coming back regardless of who is in government.



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[spotthefan]

2X post

[Mr.Coffee]

Things can be cut. The teachers pension is gigantic. It is gold- no platinum plated.

There is room to move things backwards at the next collective bargaining agreement.

Again, everyone in this province should be raising all holy hell with what’s happened with our energy sector. Chickens come home to roost.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by spotthefan

I agree there needs to be clear plans for balanced budgets.

And you can say the cuts won’t come from the frontline but the reality is, there just isn’t that much to cut. If you cut salaries from admin and “management” in the public service, saving 500 millions would be generous.

Nurses, doctors, teachers have all been well compensated in the province - like every other profession and trade in the province. Fact is we are still highest in average earnings in Canada across sectors.

Those unemployed and hurting the most are 18-24 uneducated and untrained males. Oil workers. Reality is that those jobs aren’t coming back regardless of who is in government.



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I’m not just asking you, but isn’t my role as a voter to say “this is my expectation” and it’s up to the government to work towards that? Obviously not just me personally, but the electorate in general.

And here in Alberta, we have had what I consider to be poor fiscal management for the past few years. In no particular order:

- borrowing for operations
- money spent on pet projects with no actual plan (Alberta Parks is what I’m referring to here)
- the three credit downgrades other posters have referred to
- the fact that despite increased revenues the government blew through that increase and then some

And I’m a Keynesian guy. I know we should borrow while rates are low and I think it will spur the economy over the long term. But the harsh reality is my top point is what they actually did. That’s not spurring the economy, it’s inability to find any savings and just completely untenable.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So you’re certain that the NDP would do what the PCs did during a boom(despite the fact that the NDP have done the complete opposite of what those former PCs did during recessions) yet you’re unsure about whether or not the UCP (the party that was created by merging that former PC party with the wildrose party) would follow suit? I’m not sure that post passes the smell test Dion.

There is no history with the UCP. We've all heard the the UCP is just the old PC party in wolfs clothing, but i'm willing to wait and see before passing judgement. Besides many of the original PC went over to the AB party when the UCP was formed.

Yes i'm certain the NDP would (is there an echo in here? ) spend like drunken sailors. The public sector of the govt has been doing quite well compared to the private side during this recession. They may not have gotten raises but they still had their jobs when compared to the private sector who lost jobs. She could have made cuts along the way but she didn't, and her promise is to continue to spend dollars we don't have is proof in my eyes about her spending.

I just waisted 2+ hours in the movie theatre watching Mary Queen of Scotts so you have to excuse me for my blunt manner. The things I do to keep my elderly mother happy

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by Dion

There is no history with the UCP. We've all heard the the UCP is just the old PC party in wolfs clothing, but i'm willing to wait and see before passing judgement. Besides many of the original PC went over to the AB party when the UCP was formed.

The UCP is the Wildrose Party 2.0.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Dion

I just waisted 2+ hours in the movie theatre watching Mary Queen of Scotts so you have to excuse me for my blunt manner. The things I do to keep my elderly mother happy

You're chances for getting into the goodplace actually decreased, that's weird.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You're chances for getting into the goodplace actually decreased, that's weird.

I worded that poorly and for that i'm guilty as charged

It was my suggestion that I take her. I was annoyed about how bad the movie was considering the good ratings it got. When I got her home she said it was a horrible movie too but thanked me anyway for the night out.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So you’re certain that the NDP would do what the PCs did during a boom(despite the fact that the NDP have done the complete opposite of what those former PCs did during recessions) yet you’re unsure about whether or not the UCP (the party that was created by merging that former PC party with the wildrose party) would follow suit? I’m not sure that post passes the smell test Dion.

The NDP blew cash on useless pet projects much in the same way the old PC governments had. The difference being they also raised taxes, bungled royalty reviews, shot themselves in the foot with electrical generation. Thank Jesus titty####ing christ we have $15 min wage so you can have half of it taxed in one way or another before you see a dime. Oh and they did all of this while the rest of Canada is bending Alberta over and taking us as their fiscal bitch.

The only time Notley showed she had any backbone was her ever short lived wine ban, whoop dee do! It would be really nice to have a premier with some stones to put a boot to the throat of BC, Montreal, and anyone else who has unjustly hampered Alberta (and consequently Canadas) economy.

The NDP has been a great facilitator of the pussification of this province and its embarrassing.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m not just asking you, but isn’t my role as a voter to say “this is my expectation” and it’s up to the government to work towards that? Obviously not just me personally, but the electorate in general.

But most voters have contradictory wishes. They want low taxes and excellent services. They don't want to recognize the trade-offs involved in budgeting.

Billions in energy royalties dramatically distorted Alberta's public balance sheet, along with voters' expectations around taxes and spending. Now that windfall is gone and we have to deal with the hangover. Jim Prentice said Albertans needed to look in the mirror, and he was absolutely correct. If we care at all about balancing the books, we need to suck it up and endure some combination of substantially increased taxes and substantially reduced public services.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But most voters have contradictory wishes. They want low taxes and excellent services. They don't want to recognize the trade-offs involved in budgeting.

Billions in energy royalties dramatically distorted Alberta's public balance sheet, along with voters' expectations around taxes and spending. Now that windfall is gone and we have to deal with the hangover. Jim Prentice said Albertans needed to look in the mirror, and he was absolutely correct. If we care at all about balancing the books, we need to suck it up and endure some combination of substantially increased taxes and substantially reduced public services.

Right, and I understand that trade-off. But the idea that people in the electorate can't say to the parties/government that we want them to find a way to reduce the budget seems crazy. For example, I have a job and it's not working for the government; I can't be expected to go through things and find ways to reduce the budget, but I know that's the end result I would like to see. Is that really so misguided?

And yeah, Albertans have had this energy windfall, and that was nice. But at the same time we are paying more tax today than we were during the boom (in a percentage basis, particularly when you include all of the sin taxes and user fees). So a piece of this requires the government to look at spending. While you could convince me a few years ago that the revenue side was all that needed addressing, I'm less sure today. I don't know where to cut, and I guess I can't say "here, we can save a quick billion right there", but I don't think that's my role as a voter.