High Tech Thermostat

[Swayze11]

Just got my nest, going to install it soon. So pumped!

Few obstacles getting it.
1. Its only sold in the US
2. You can only use a US credit card to get it.
3. There is a feature that will actually look at the forecast and adjust the temp according to that. I assume you can only use US cities but I will find out.
4. The NEST iPhone and iPad app is only available to US customers, so I had to set up a US account and then sync it manually but it should be good now.

Here's another I have been looking at:

http://www.ecobee.com/

Android/IOs app and a web portal...

User review http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80517

[monkeyman]

Just a heads up to all those who've been waiting like me. Nest is now shipping to Canada and the app is available in iTunes.

[bomber317]

May not be worth the upgrade if you already have a programmable thermostat.

One person's experience with it so far.

http://www.wiredprairie.us/blog/index.php/archives/1420

[monkeyman]

wow, that guy had a pretty bad experience. some of the issues he brought up i could see being quite frustrating. To be honest, i get a little distracted with shiny objects but after reading that i dug around the net a little more for reviews. it seems like a few people have had issues with these.
thanks for posting it.

[SebC]

Frankly, it is rather predictable that a device that tries to predict what you want will give you worse results than a device where you tell it what you want.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by SebC

Frankly, it is rather predictable that a device that tries to predict what you want will give you worse results than a device where you tell it what you want.

That's quite insightful actually

[monkeyman]

I like the idea of being able to see raw data on how the temperature changes over time and then i can make my own decisions about what i want. The thermostat doesn't just try and guess what you want, it learns from your input and from the motion detection. do i see there being issues with this? sure, at first but i also see the benefit. with my old thermostat, I made my assumptions based on when i think i'll be home, wake up and go to sleep. this would give me hard data. This also gives you the ability to change the temperature from your phone if you're coming home early or staying late. it lets you set it from bed if your home sick, getting up early or late. If your old school, you can turn off the learning feature, set a schedule and leave it, but that would take away half the fun. now is that worth 250 clams? i'm not really sure, but i'm tempted.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I like the idea of being able to see raw data on how the temperature changes over time and then i can make my own decisions about what i want. The thermostat doesn't just try and guess what you want, it learns from your input and from the motion detection. do i see there being issues with this? sure, at first but i also see the benefit. with my old thermostat, I made my assumptions based on when i think i'll be home, wake up and go to sleep. this would give me hard data. This also gives you the ability to change the temperature from your phone if you're coming home early or staying late. it lets you set it from bed if your home sick, getting up early or late. If your old school, you can turn off the learning feature, set a schedule and leave it, but that would take away half the fun. now is that worth 250 clams? i'm not really sure, but i'm tempted.

If it had feedforward control, and was actually able to use the thermodynamic properties of your house and it's own learning to have the house reach a certain temperature by the time you change the dial, that would be something. But it apparently doesn't do that. Nor would such a feature require a learning algorithm to be effective. Nor can you do this yourself just by using its data, because it depends on the outside temperature which is different every day - especially in Calgary.

Plus if you had one of those in my parents' house when me and my siblings were still living there, it would have gone completely nuts because the kids were always turning it up and the parents were always turning it down!

[monkeyman]

you're asking a lot of a simple home thermostat. does such a thermostat even exist, does such a house? to be able to measure that kind of information, accounting for variables before they change is way too much to ask in my opinion. its not your thing, i get it. i don't need, nor expect it to do the things you apparently do.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

you're asking a lot of a simple home thermostat. does such a thermostat even exist, does such a house? to be able to measure that kind of information, accounting for variables before they change is way too much to ask in my opinion. its not your thing, i get it. i don't need, nor expect it to do the things you apparently do.

It's not really that hard. All you need to do is correlate the rate of temperature increase with the house temperature, outdoor temperature, and furnace power level. You can do this with thermodynamic models, or you can do this treating using a black box model. Given that the thing is connected to the internet, it can easily find the outdoor temperature. It controls the furnace power level. It measures the house temperature. So it could easily do it.

Does such a thermostat exist? Absolutely, there are feedforward controllers for temperature (of course, it would also incorporate feedback control). Does it exist for consumers? Probably not, but that's what I'd want a premium thermostat to do, rather than start warming your house at the time when you want it to have reached that warmer temperature. The NEST has all the hardware it needs to be this device, the only reason it doesn't do this is that the people who designed its software/firmware weren't smart enough to do so.

[PsnaP]

You have to take these reviews with a grain of salt. So someone had some issues with the unit. Perhaps they werent using it correctly? Ive watched videos on on the nest and it will learn your routines based on user input and also motion. If the unit is placed in a high traffic area it will pick up you being home and maintain a preset temp. If you leave the house it will set to a lower temp. So in one of those review he mentions he went down to the basement, well perhaps the unit predicted that no one would be in the room based on previous data it had collected and set the lower temp. So who knows, its ok to read some negative reviews but you also need to read some positive.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by PsnaP

You have to take these reviews with a grain of salt. So someone had some issues with the unit. Perhaps they werent using it correctly? Ive watched videos on on the nest and it will learn your routines based on user input and also motion. If the unit is placed in a high traffic area it will pick up you being home and maintain a preset temp. If you leave the house it will set to a lower temp. So in one of those review he mentions he went down to the basement, well perhaps the unit predicted that no one would be in the room based on previous data it had collected and set the lower temp. So who knows, its ok to read some negative reviews but you also need to read some positive.

The real problem is that the best the unit can do is meet expectations. It's the same for any utility type device or service. Who goes around singing the praises of getting a dial tone every day last month, or having the electricity on all week? Nobody. Anything less is failure.

Being perfect is an awfully high standard to live up to, especially compared to conventional programable thermostats, which by definition operate perfectly since they obey their set schedule without fail.

[Barnes]

Just got a Nest today. ordered a 1st gen one for $199 from Amazon. Very impressive product and really well thought out setup. There have been some major software improvements since this thread was started.

Inside the box is the unit, a multi-bit screwdriver, and 2 different mounting plates if your original thermostat left an ugly hole in your wall.

They provide you with little labels to label your wires as you remove them from your old thermostat. Jumper wires can be discarded, the unit is smart enough to know what to do. You install the back plate by driving 2 screws into the wall (there's a built in bubble level to keep it straight) and insert the wires. They are pressure type connections like speaker wire connections so no bending wire around a little screw.

Then you push the Nest onto the backplate. It fires up and goes into the setup.

You find your wifi and enter your password.
It downloaded and installed a software update.
It analyzes the wires attached to determine your HVAC setup.
Enter number of Nests you'll be using.
Pick a name for your Nest
Your enter your fuel source. Oil, gas, electric, geothermal etc.
Had to enter forced air.
Enter your Country.
Enter your postal code.
Enter when your house was built.
Desired away temperature.

Went to my computer and registered for a Nest account. Nest on the wall saw it right away and asked if I wanted it to be added to my email address account.

Downloaded the iPhone app.

Set up furnace filter reminders by telling it I changed it last month.

A very nice install experience and outside of some router changes I had to make to get 802.11n to work in the 2.4ghz range, no problems. No idea why I had it set for B,G only.

There is also a bunch of cool things for those with central air I wont get into cause I don't have AC. The 2nd gen also can act as a humidistat which would have been nice.

Originally Posted by kermitology

Does it still serve a purpose when you have geothermal heating? Because I still want it.

Geothermal is one of the options for heating source now.

Originally Posted by SebC

If it had feedforward control, and was actually able to use the thermodynamic properties of your house and it's own learning to have the house reach a certain temperature by the time you change the dial, that would be something. But it apparently doesn't do that. Nor would such a feature require a learning algorithm to be effective. Nor can you do this yourself just by using its data, because it depends on the outside temperature which is different every day - especially in Calgary.

When connected to Wifi it knows the outside temperature plus it learns how quickly it can heat your house to reach the temperature you like. You tell it how old your house is as well. If it's -15 out and your house is 16deg and you like it 22deg when you get home, it knows to fire up the furnace at this time to reach 22 deg by the time you get home vs. firing it up at that time when it's only 0deg out.

[underGRADFlame]

Bump...

Just bought and installed a gen 2 tonight. Was super simple to install and setup. It seems to register that its warmer then it actually is, but I think I'll troubleshoot in the am. Love controlling things from my iPad or iPhone!

[bossy22]

Will these things alert me when my furnace isn't working? Last cold spell the limit switch got stuck so my furnace wouldn't kick in. We where out of town, so we came home to a freezing house.

[psicodude]

I just had AC installed this week, and the installer was raving about the Nest...so I bought one. The awesome thing that it does to save you power during the summer is to shut off the compressor a few minutes before it's done cooling and just use the leftover "coldness" in the coil to cool your house. Nest has a video on their website that compares this to a Popsicle...take the popsicle out of the freezer and it doesn't melt immediately. Really cool stuff and they claim it can save you 30% on your power bill.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by psicodude

I just had AC installed this week, and the installer was raving about the Nest...so I bought one. The awesome thing that it does to save you power during the summer is to shut off the compressor a few minutes before it's done cooling and just use the leftover "coldness" in the coil to cool your house. Nest has a video on their website that compares this to a Popsicle...take the popsicle out of the freezer and it doesn't melt immediately. Really cool stuff and they claim it can save you 30% on your power bill.

Living in Calgary is a good way to save a lot more than 30% on AC

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Does the Gen 2 need the C wire for power?

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Does the Gen 2 need the C wire for power?

They say no... But yes it does.