Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[442scotty]

I’m so tired of the circus here lol ... like a school yard argument where nobody agrees... I’m going to stick to the news only thread if I can

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is this a joke?

What's so funny?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

The temper tantrum comment is going to piss off ownership a lot. Corporate type guys don't like being insulted during negotiations.

The idea that the mayor must kowtow to CSEG because their owners are rich is infuriating. I don't think Nenshi's comment was well advised, but his response should have nothing to do with how "corporate guys" expect to be treated.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Fire

What's so funny?

Probably the fact that the Flames are a patently mediocre team throughout the vast majority of their history and still have a strong fanbase.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fire

They were a revenue sharing recipient last season and they are bumping up against the ceiling on how much they can charge for tickets. Look at the resale market for the Flames. It's terrible. You can't break even on most games at season ticket prices. Besides small yearly inflation increases they are pretty much maxed out on the revenue they can get out of the Saddledome. The costs outside the realm of the CBA is going up drastically (coaches, management, etc).

Eventually they will to decide if they want to remain a cap team and lose money or decrease the amount they pay out on salaries. I don't think the fans will stick around if the Flames are consistently icing a sub-optimal team.

Unless the economy rebounds, new arena isn't going to fix most of these issues.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Fire

What's so funny?

The Flames have 1 finals appearance and what, 2 division titles in the last 25 years?

I think the fanbase can handle a sucky team.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

The temper tantrum comment is going to piss off ownership a lot. Corporate type guys don't like being insulted during negotiations.

Naturally. Powerful people rarely like having a mirror dropped in front of them.

As to what you are implying, billionaire businessmen and politicians don't get where they are by holding petty grudges like teenage girls do. Whenever the Flames drop the façade and return to the negotiating table, this comment won't even register.

[fotiou22]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

If that was how you interpreted that press conference then you'll never rationally consider Nenshi's position. I'm not saying you have to agree with him but that was the furthest thing from smug (except the tantrum thing but whatever, they did throw a tantrum)

Couldn't agree more. I've lived in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. Some Calgarians don't realize how lucky they are to have Nenshi as mayor. This is the epitome of rational, intelligent leadership. Most importantly, he's in nobody's pocket.

At every stage of this process, Ken King and Bettman (representing the Flames) has been bumbling, disingenuous, utterly condescending. They're damaging one of the city's most beloved brands.

For those trying to find a way to somehow pin this mess on Nenshi, how do you expect a mayor to respond?

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I found the whole thing incredibly smug. Just like every time he opens his mouth. Not going to go over well with ownership.

And? He just made Ken King look like a total amateur.

Nenshi can be an arrogant nerd, but he's intelligent and gets his point across. He's looking after the interests of the city which is a breath of fresh air when it comes to sports teams IMO.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by nik-

Probably the fact that the Flames are a patently mediocre team throughout the vast majority of their history and still have a strong fanbase.

So strong that in the 90s they had to be bluntly cajoled for multiple years into buying tickets or become the next Winnipeg/QC. Ottawa has been removing/tarping off seats to pad out their attendance percentages, there's no reason a similarly-sized market is immune from the same thing happening to them Canadian or no.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

So strong that in the 90s they had to be bluntly cajoled for multiple years into buying tickets or become the next Winnipeg/QC

In the 90's the British still owned Hong Kong.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by nik-

Probably the fact that the Flames are a patently mediocre team throughout the vast majority of their history and still have a strong fanbase.

Were you around for the 90's. The building was almost 1/3 empty for a good portion of it. The Flames had to have a "Save the Flames" campaign to beg the fans to buy tickets in 2001. The fans started to come back with the success of 2004. Now you are seeing empty seats even though the Flames have made the playoffs 2 of last 3 seasons.

[nik-]

Good thing it's not the 90's

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by New Era

So the real solution here is community ownership like the Green Bay Packers, and run as a non-profit. That would be interesting and an idea I could get behind, if longsuffering is okay with that of course.

Quit acting like a child. As you keep reminding everyone you're a grown and presumably mature adult.

Community ownership is an interesting idea but not feasible unless the Flames ownership handover the team ownership as a community asset.

No appetite for paying $400 million for the team and $500 - $600 million for a building. In headier times perhaps but not today.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by nik-

In the 90's the British still owned Hong Kong.

In the 90s Calgary was still running on the assumption that oil was going to keep it afloat forever.

[nik-]

ok.

What's your point? Two decades ago and two CBA's ago things were different!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fire

They were a revenue sharing recipient last season and they are bumping up against the ceiling on how much they can charge for tickets. Look at the resale market for the Flames. It's terrible. You can't break even on most games at season ticket prices. Besides small yearly inflation increases they are pretty much maxed out on the revenue they can get out of the Saddledome. The costs outside the realm of the CBA is going up drastically (coaches, management, etc).

Eventually they will to decide if they want to remain a cap team and lose money or decrease the amount they pay out on salaries. I don't think the fans will stick around if the Flames are consistently icing a sub-optimal team.

What makes you think that any other team can increase revenue beyond the rate of inflation. Everybody but Edmonton and Detroit don't have any new revenue sources.

Also if the resale value and revenue potential is terrible now isn't it far more risky to assume that you will increase revenues by 30%- 40% with a new building. And you need to do that just to break even on the investment.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by nik-

Good thing it's not the 90's

So, what's your point? No matter what decade it is, the fans will not support a mediocre hockey team with no hope for the future.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

And? He just made Ken King look like a total amateur.

Nenshi can be an arrogant nerd, but he's intelligent and gets his point across. He's looking after the interests of the city which is a breath of fresh air when it comes to sports teams IMO.

Damn Straight

Nenshi is trying to get the best deal for the Taxpayers, not Flames ownership.

Glad he is more than willing to call them out on their dubious financial numbers.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fire

So, what's your point? No matter what decade it is, the fans will not support a mediocre hockey team with no hope for the future.

The league had no salary cap or cost certainty in the 90's. There was no hope for a better team back then because the economics didn't allow for the team to improve, that is not the case today.