2017-2018 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[jayswin]

God Damnit, he seemed pretty optimistic just weeks ago. Now you trade him, don't screw around, we're nowhere close to a playoff team and he ain't re-signing.

[jayswin]

Not to get all negative but it's werid how much he expressed he wanted to stay and then suddenly says "yes" and "that's my last comment this season" when asked now whether he's going to free agency.

How much do you want to bet that he and his agent had their first meeting in regards to a new contract and walked away like every big star, pending free agent going "Well, what the **** was that, it's like they don't even want to try to sign me?"?.

[jayswin]

Reminiscent of the Price "negotiations". "We tried very hard to keep David with a great offer".

Two weeks later... "Uh, Toronto didn't give me an offer, I loved it there and wanted to remain a Blue Jay, but had to move on when nothing happened".

[bluejays]

I think you have it wrong jayswin. Firstly regarding Price, when he signed with BOS for $35M or whatever amount it was, there was no way the Jays would've come close to that. Even $25M was a stretch, so why bother even making an offer if it's going to be insulting? Better to just walk away, which the Jays were right to do then, and in hindsight even now it worked out, so I don't know what could be the problem.

As for Donaldson and this negotiation, the first stage will be to feel out the length that Donaldson is looking for, then they'll ballpark the price. Given that the initial meeting wasn't great, that likely tells you that JD is looking for a longer term deal, which depending on the length he may be requesting, would require the Jays to offer less money if it doesn't fit their internal risk assessment. It likely hasn't got to the point of discussing dollar value.

I don't think there's a single thing to worry about at this point though. Initial discussions are just feeling out the lay of the land. Both sides will play various games leading up to any decision, in hopes to pressure the other side to make a deal. No doubt Donaldson is marketable and plays a desirable position, so he'll likely get a 6 year deal for $27M (if I were to guess). If I were the Jays I wouldn't feel comfortable going beyond 4 years, and give a larger front loaded contract. Who knows what JD would want, but I'm sure you'll hear back and forth using the media a lot over the next few months.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fleury

I think you have it wrong jayswin. Firstly regarding Price, when he signed with BOS for $35M or whatever amount it was, there was no way the Jays would've come close to that. Even $25M was a stretch, so why bother even making an offer if it's going to be insulting? Better to just walk away, which the Jays were right to do then, and in hindsight even now it worked out, so I don't know what could be the problem.

Yeah, there was no way the Jays were paying Price, so I guess my beef was actually with their broadcast saying they gave an offer and then Price coming out a couple weeks later saying there was no offer.

If you're letting a guy walk, just let him walk, no reason to pretend you were trying to appease people.

[Roof-Daddy]

I'm not as hung up on extending JD. He's a great player but he' already 32, and will be 33 by the time any extension would kick in, and you can bet he's looking for 6 years at least IMO.

The Jays front office is going to try and build a winner from within, and honestly JD's age doesn't fit in with when this team should hopefully be ready to properly contend with the likes of Vlad, Bo, Alford and Pearson hopefully leading the way.

I'm just going to enjoy watching a supremely motivated JD suit up for the Jays this season, because he's a treat to watch. Hopefully he puts the team on his back and carries them to a Wild Card berth with another MVP caliber season.

[d_phaneuf]

Have to trade him unless they are somehow contending close to the deadline, and if they look out of it in may or June then trade him then

But he can't just walk away

Team can be competitive again in a few years. vlady, bichette, and Alford all look to be in that timeline but if JD is gone they need some value back

He'd be the number one target too for most teams, should be a huge return

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

He'd be the number one target too for most teams, should be a huge return

No, the return for Donaldson will be lackluster... who was the last position player with no control remaining that fetched a huge return. Doesn't happen. Pitchers get a big return because their half the line-up, third basemen not so much.

I would wager he doesn't get a return much better then the comp pick they get if he walks in FA.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, the return for Donaldson will be lackluster... who was the last position player with no control remaining that fetched a huge return. Doesn't happen. Pitchers get a big return because their half the line-up, third basemen not so much.

I would wager he doesn't get a return much better then the comp pick they get if he walks in FA.

Yeap, and fans might as well mentally prepare themselves for that to happen.

Hope to hell he has a great season, lots goes right and the Jays have another go at the post season because of it.

Other than that, all you can really do is hope the young players on the team (Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Travis, Ramirez, Biagini) and high potential prospects in the system (Vlad, Bo, Alford, Hernandez, Pearson, Zeuch, Gurriel, Borucki, Panonne, Jansen, etc) have strong years and continue to build for 2-3 years down the road.

[TheAlpineOracle]

So pathetic we can’t keep a player like Donaldson while we continue to build from the inside. I just hope the Jays flat out say this time they are going in another direction instead of floating BS all year about resigning the guy. Maybe resigning Donaldson may not be the best move (lucky we didn’t resign Bautista and Price), but it’s just the same narrative each and every time with this team.

That said, pretty clear there is no intention to sign him, so why didn’t we move him? Seems like a waste of a year and 25M.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

So pathetic we can’t keep a player like Donaldson while we continue to build from the inside. I just hope the Jays flat out say this time they are going in another direction instead of floating BS all year about resigning the guy. Maybe resigning Donaldson may not be the best move (lucky we didn’t resign Bautista and Price), but it’s just the same narrative each and every time with this team.

That said, pretty clear there is no intention to sign him, so why didn’t we move him? Seems like a waste of a year and 25M.

Well, not really a waste at all for this year. If the pitching staff stays healthy, they have the chops to be a top rotation in the AL.

On the offensive side, it won't be juggernaut '15 team, but they'll score some runs.

All told this team should have a good shot at a wild card. That's not nothing.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

So pathetic we can’t keep a player like Donaldson while we continue to build from the inside. I just hope the Jays flat out say this time they are going in another direction instead of floating BS all year about resigning the guy. Maybe resigning Donaldson may not be the best move (lucky we didn’t resign Bautista and Price), but it’s just the same narrative each and every time with this team.

That said, pretty clear there is no intention to sign him, so why didn’t we move him? Seems like a waste of a year and 25M.

They can keep him if they like...just have to hand over a 6 year deal worth 150 million. Why would they do that though?

That would be an asinine move at this point. Look at the market right now. You wanna give a 33 year old guy that kind of money and term moving forward when you could pick up other guys at the fraction of the price?

[Roof-Daddy]

Jays management held strong when Bautista was demanding that kind of money and term at the same age and I think we're all glad they did now.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Jays management held strong when Bautista was demanding that kind of money and term at the same age and I think we're all glad they did now.

Exactly.

And it's not just the Jays doing this stuff.

There has been a monumental shift in baseball in regards to free agency. You just wont see many deals taking guys into their late 30's at big dough. It's the trail end of the steroid era where guys actually improved at age 35 for a decade and a half. Now we are back to the normal aging/performance ages of decline.

As always there will be an outlier here and there, and likely with the Yankees!

JD is a great baseball player and probably will be for another 3 years or so. Problem is he is already starting to see the injury bug a bit, will be 35 in 3 years and simply wont be worth $75M over the final 3 years of a deal that he would accept to stay in TO right now.

Its prudent management to say no right now.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

So pathetic we can’t keep a player like Donaldson while we continue to build from the inside. I just hope the Jays flat out say this time they are going in another direction instead of floating BS all year about resigning the guy. Maybe resigning Donaldson may not be the best move (lucky we didn’t resign Bautista and Price), but it’s just the same narrative each and every time with this team.

That said, pretty clear there is no intention to sign him, so why didn’t we move him? Seems like a waste of a year and 25M.

If they move Donaldson then there is NO chance at a wild card berth this season, and it signals to a fickle fan base that they aren't even trying to win. Attendance plummets.

It's just the way it is. This management group and ownership group isn't going to do a complete tear down when there is still a chance at winning, even if it's just slight. Personally, I'm OK with that as long as they aren't trading key pieces of the future to add to a roster that is barely on the bubble. Instead what they've done is add cheap, attainable depth at almost all positions without long term and/or big money commitments.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If they move Donaldson then there is NO chance at a wild card berth this season, and it signals to a fickle fan base that they aren't even trying to win. Attendance plummets.

It's just the way it is. This management group and ownership group isn't going to do a complete tear down when there is still a chance at winning, even if it's just slight. Personally, I'm OK with that as long as they aren't trading key pieces of the future to add to a roster that is barely on the bubble. Instead what they've done is add cheap, attainable depth at almost all positions without long term and/or big money commitments.

There is zero chance at winning this year. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if this team finishes at .500 in the division we play in.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There is zero chance at winning this year. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if this team finishes at .500 in the division we play in.

That's debatable, and a lot has to go right for sure. Obviously you're free to believe what you want.

However, removing JD from the line up would clearly remove all doubt.

[BOSSY]

I wouldn't count them out just yet... Baseball is the one sport where spending a ton of money doesn't always equal the winning team (usually does but not always) ... You never know they get on a roll and who knows - they are not a bad team on paper and have above average pitching --- maybe we will be pleasantly surprised instead of being disappointed...

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by BOSSY

I wouldn't count them out just yet... Baseball is the one sport where spending a ton of money doesn't always equal the winning team (usually does but not always) ... You never know they get on a roll and who knows - they are not a bad team on paper and have above average pitching --- maybe we will be pleasantly surprised instead of being disappointed...

Not to mention, they're still going to have a top-five payroll.

This year a lot of teams are trying to stay under the tax, too.

[Jiggy_12]

With the Jays rotation performing to moderate expectation (that is, nobody over or under performs, and no crazy full season blisters) and the additions of Solarte, Diaz, Grichuk, and Granderson - the floor of the team should be much higher and a wildcard spot is not a crazy thought - aside from the top teams, the AL should be pretty wide open.

That said, this is assuming we have JD.