The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by getoverit

I wish some of the GM's would have the balls and smarten up these entitled money hungry millenials and have them sit out and see it attitudes change. GM's are there own worst enemies... starting with Dubas.

Kyle Dumbass is the enemy of all GMs

He was instrumental in screwing up the RFA market

[genetic_phreek]

If Tkachuk holds out until the deadline to be able to play, do we let him sit out the entire year or does he get traded?

Maybe Ottawa makes a pitch for him and gives up their 1st again but without facing UFA risk like they did with Duchene. Also being able to get both brothers on the same team.

Then we get a shot at Lafreniere if Ottawa continues to be bad.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getoverit

I wish some of the GM's would have the balls and smarten up these entitled money hungry millenials and have them sit out and see it attitudes change. GM's are there own worst enemies... starting with Dubas.

Except that STH's drop a lot of coin to watch the team play. Having one of your star players sit out the entire season, just to send a message, is a tough sell.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Except that STH's drop a lot of coin to watch the team play. Having one of your star players sit out the entire season, just to send a message, is a tough sell.

It doesn’t have to be ‘to send a message’.

The team has a cap against which they must manage their business. Existing commitments are constraints.

If the player doesn’t want to play for what the team can budget or afford, it’s not sending a message.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It doesn’t have to be ‘to send a message’.

The team has a cap against which they must manage their business. Existing commitments are constraints.

If the player doesn’t want to play for what the team can budget or afford, it’s not sending a message.

Read the post I quoted.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Except that STH's drop a lot of coin to watch the team play. Having one of your star players sit out the entire season, just to send a message, is a tough sell.

There's a reason for dropping a lot of coin.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Nylander cap hit last year was over 11 mil. If Tkachuk holds out it puts pressure on flames every day to sign him

Isn't the pressure in the other direction? The longer Tkachuk sits out (once the season starts), the lower his cap hit will have to be in order to still be signed and play this season. Otherwise, it'll get to the point where he has no choice but to sit out the whole season, in which case he'll lose out on the $7M+ he would have earned from playing that season - so unless he thinks that for sure he'll be able to get that $7M+ back and more in a contract starting the following year, the pressure will be on him to give a little. Skipping a year in the NHL also probably won't help from a player development perspective and could impact his long term earning potential as well, if it causes his skills to stagnate.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Read the post I quoted.

Yes I read it. Should have put more colour on my post

That poster was saying to not be afraid to sit a greedy RFA out, you said what you said, and my thinking was that the Flames might just end up in a situation where they have to let Tkachuk sit out a year, not to prove a point, rather just because that is the only option if he doesn’t take what they have available to give

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by delayedreflex

Isn't the pressure in the other direction? The longer Tkachuk sits out (once the season starts), the lower his cap hit will have to be in order to still be signed and play this season. Otherwise, it'll get to the point where he has no choice but to sit out the whole season, in which case he'll lose out on the $7M+ he would have earned from playing that season - so unless he thinks that for sure he'll be able to get that $7M+ back and more in a contract starting the following year, the pressure will be on him to give a little. Skipping a year in the NHL also probably won't help from a player development perspective and could impact his long term earning potential as well, if it causes his skills to stagnate.

I think both positions could be right. I would think how the team performs in a hold out situation will dictate pressure and leverage. If the Flames are doing okay without him I could see Treliving sticking to his guns. If they think they need him to make playoffs I’m sure there’s a revenue expectation associated with playoffs and as such, maybe you’re more inclined to sign him provided the cap implications aren’t too destructive?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Also, as they get closer together, at some point, it is worthwhile for the player to just settle

For example if Tkachuk insists he wants 8 million a year and the Flames offer 7, he could either
a) take the Flames offer today and make $56 million
b) take 0 year 1 and get his $8 mill over the next 7 years, for a total of $56 mill over 8 years

Just throwing away a year of his career, one less chance to win the Cup by virtue of not playing

Now obviously that’s an oversimplification but the principle is not irrelevant

And I would not be surprised with a short term deal between 1 and 3 years. If the Flames don’t have cap room, they don’t have cap room.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Nylander cap hit last year was over 11 mil. If Tkachuk holds out it puts pressure on flames every day to sign him

The pressure goes both ways. The longer he waits the less the Flames can pay him.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I would like to see this:

Tkachuk 1 yr @6.75
Mangiapane 2 yrs @1 M

Start training camp.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I would like to see this:

Tkachuk 1 yr @6.75
Mangiapane 2 yrs @1 M

Start training camp.

Why on Earth would Tkachuk sign that?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why on Earth would Tkachuk sign that?

Because he can be the highest paid player, he can sign a more lucrative contract next year when the team has cap room, and because his other option is to sign nothing and wait a year?

(Also, why on earth did Labanc sign for $1 M)

[TheScorpion]

I must say, if the whole Gio cap principle is going to stop the Flames from giving out reasonable offers, I'm not so sure that it's a good idea.

I get deferring salary to later years of the contract but insisting that the AAV also remain lower is going to be really difficult to achieve.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I must say, if the whole Gio cap principle is going to stop the Flames from giving out reasonable offers, I'm not so sure that it's a good idea.

I get deferring salary to later years of the contract but insisting that the AAV also remain lower is going to be really difficult to achieve.

Yes, but it is a 2019 problem. The only way the Flames can get Tkachuk in to the fold, without other moves, is a short term deal. They have only so much cap room.

Dollars are committed now. They have cap room in 2020

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Because he can be the highest paid player, he can sign a more lucrative contract next year when the team has cap room, and because his other option is to sign nothing and wait a year?

(Also, why on earth did Labanc sign for $1 M)

I just don't think Tkachuk cares about the highest paid player thing. If he signs a 1 year deal, that won't be his benchmark IMO. And he most certainly won't get bent over like Labanc did.

In theory his AAV should be low on a 1 year deal but the whole RFA market has changed radically. Being under team control isn't helping teams save any money it appears.

[Moneyhands23]

Pressure mounts starting friday!

Hopefully this gets resolved soon!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I just don't think Tkachuk cares about the highest paid player thing. If he signs a 1 year deal, that won't be his benchmark IMO. And he most certainly won't get bent over like Labanc did.

In theory his AAV should be low on a 1 year deal but the whole RFA market has changed radically. Being under team control isn't helping teams save any money it appears.

Hopefully we find out in the near future that teams not having cap space isn’t helping RFAs make money as well.

Treliving at some point can look him in the eye and say “So we have (whatever number, say ~6.75) million and not a penny more, it’s all we can do. Do you want to sit out and hope we find more money, knowing there is the risk of missing the year if we can’t?”

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I just don't think Tkachuk cares about the highest paid player thing. If he signs a 1 year deal, that won't be his benchmark IMO. And he most certainly won't get bent over like Labanc did.

In theory his AAV should be low on a 1 year deal but the whole RFA market has changed radically. Being under team control isn't helping teams save any money it appears.

These RFAs need to understand that the only team beholden to the dumbassery of Kyle Dubas is the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Sebastian Aho as a 22 year old #1C got 5/$42.5. On an offersheet no less.

Tkachuk isn't a #1C. He's very good and he's going to get paid, the money he's actually going to get only goes down from here. There is no pressure on the team to sign him - this is still a playoff team without Matthew Tkachuk. He's not missing a year of service time when he could have $56M guaranteed or whatever.

This is a negotiation. If I'm betting on a side that blinks first, it won't be the one with Brad Treliving on it. He got Johnny done, he'll get this done.