What’s Causing the Most Problem?

[ForeverFlameFan]

In no order:

1. Core - the guys you build around
2. Core’s Supporting Cast - Non-core players, the secondaries
3. Coaching - HC, AC, goalie coach, etc
4. Ownership - owners of the Flames
5. GM - Brad Treliving —> UFA signings, trading, hiring, anything a GM does
6. Scouting/Prospect Development - how well we’re drafting, how well we’re doing in developing our prospects into becoming NHLers, and how well we do to allow them to get NHL stints.
—> 7. Leadership - How well the team is being lead, whether by coach, captain, or veterans.

Let me know if I’m forgetting any or if I should combine a couple.

Rank them from the worst problem/biggest worry to the least of our problems.

In my opinion, there’s a strong case for coaching, GM, and core as the worst issue. But, I make this thread to ask:

What do you think is the biggest issue?
Which one of these is easier to fix?
Does trying to fix one or two of these require us to do a big retool/rebuild? Does it set us back in a negative/positive way?

[Johnhitbox]

All of the above

But I think we need to change the GM, if we changed ownership I bet the first thing they would do would be to sit down with Brad treliving, and ask him to resign.

[Slava]

I think that the problem is that a bunch of these guys don't like each other. There are a couple little "cliques" in that room, and they're not willing to play for each other, never mind enjoying themselves.

[---Hatrick---]

I think the whole Bennett situation coincides with the timing of when the team went to s***.
I think it may have caused drama in the room and also the players may not have liked the way he was being treated (scratched and deployed on the fourth line)

[Backstop]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that the problem is that a bunch of these guys don't like each other. There are a couple little "cliques" in that room, and they're not willing to play for each other, never mind enjoying themselves.

While impossible to prove short of a player spilling the beans to media, I agree that at least to my eye during games there does appear to be a divide in the players -I notice it most during goal celebrations.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

All of the above

But I think we need to change the GM, if we changed ownership I bet the first thing they would do would be to sit down with Brad treliving, and ask him to resign.

Agreed, it's all of it. The coach is bad, that's the easiest fix. The roster isn't good enough and doesn't have the elite pivot, that's a toughest one. I think ownership wants us as a playoff team as the goal and it results in things like us jumping the gun after 2015. The GM has a pretty significant collection of bad decisions and is treading water after being here for 7 years. Scouting is better than it was, but is it better than more than half the league? I wouldn't say it is.

[Ozy_Flame]

The problem with being mediocre is that you're not good enough to compete and not bad enough to get that star player. As a result we are constantly trying to find some sort of middle ground to show we can keep up, but that song and dance is getting tiresome.

I also think Treliving's constant attempts at replacing actual elite talent with "hope and a prayer" players to blossom has worn thin. This strategy is not working and we keep wasting draft picks, roster spots and time on plugs that are expected to play over their heads and ultimately fail.

[CSharp]

I think ownership for the past 4-5 years has the least to do with this but might have had some impact with the initial rebuild process. In place of that, though, you'd want to include the management team that oversees the hiring of the GM and other directors. Burke - he's not here now, but he oversaw part of that rebuild and didn't like what Fiester was doing. The whole process is rushed. Scouting can be better for sure. I always thought teams like San Jose and Detroit had great scouting as they're always near the top in the standings and run pretty deep into the playoffs, yet they still had talent that kept going in or get traded for other key pieces. Then, you look at the Flames and you kind of scratch your head and ask, "why can't we get talent like them". Or, maybe the Flames farm teams are managed wrong as well.

[gilligans_off]

Not winning

[Harry Lime]

This teams only real elite strength in this league is scouting and development. I'd put them in the top five.

Once a player gets to the show, it's a crap shoot whether their career is tanked by mismanagement or they are given a chance. I understand the 'you have to earn it' mentality, but some players get to earn their way in positions of success and some are left with the dregs.

Bennett discussion aside, is there a reason why Phillips is too small to play in the nhl and Mangiapane is fine. They play the same style of game, but Phillips is a natural RW, a need on this team.

I bet when Phillips does get a game, it will be 6 minutes with Simon and Nordstrom. He will then be a failure in the eyes of management. Other teams have more common sense.

That's the sort of thing that aggravates me the most. They create their own roadblocks, and that allows things like cliques in the room to develop, because putting the best team on the ice becomes secondary.

[Jason14h]

Lack of top end elite talent.

Then that trickles throughout the lineup.

We don't have a top 50 paid player in the league. We expect our very good talent to be elite

Without elite talent you better be sure the sum of your parts is greater then the individual talent

And we manage to not only miss on elite talent, we also are worst then the sum of our parts!

[Jaybo]

Originally Posted by Backstop

While impossible to prove short of a player spilling the beans to media, I agree that at least to my eye during games there does appear to be a divide in the players -I notice it most during goal celebrations.

Also noticeable during scrums or if the goalie gets run - some players will jump in and others hang back.

Who knows if there is truth to the stories of Tkachuk and Rittich being told to show less emotion but that could be part of it too - hockey is an emotional game and I'd think you want people playing with passion.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

This teams only real elite strength in this league is scouting and development. I'd put them in the top five.

Can you elaborate on your reasoning? I just don't see it.

[Winsor_Pilates]

3,1,5,6,2,4

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Can you elaborate on your reasoning? I just don't see it.

Probably important to delineate between amateur and pro scouting. I would certainly rank them differently

[Red_Baron]

After a few days to contemplate things, maybe it is just that difficult for this particular group to bond as a team with the covid restrictions, especially on road trips. Every team has the same restrictions but I am wondering if there are a couple rifts between players that could normally be solved by some team bonding that can't be done this season.

Might give some insight as to why the replacement level signings have contributed SFA to scoring this year as well.

[dissentowner]

Coaching. The roster is built as a small skilled team and the donkey behind the bench has them dumping and defending. There is a reason that experts looked at this team on paper and thought they could challenge for the North Division top seed.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We don't have a top 50 paid player in the league.

That's a good thing. Tre is a great negotiator.

[Erick Estrada]

I think there's an expiry date on the cores of most teams no matter how good. Once they spend enough years together things become too familiar and comfortable. This core has largely been together for over half a decade and it's stale. It doesn't help that they haven't found a head coach that can identify a system that suits the roster. I think if you added a better head coach they would improve in performance but I think the overall ceiling is lower now than it was a few years ago. It's simply time to shake up the core even if it means taking a step back to take two steps forward. This is what the Wild have done and it's working so far.

[Lanny_McDonald]

3. Coaching


5. GM



6. Scouting/Prospect Development

2. Core’s Supporting Cast
1. Core





4. Ownership