Some negative people complain and play the "shouted down" card. Yet here we are, in a thread that's supposed to be positive, and a few posters have to be wet blankets. It goes without saying, but you're not being honest and telling the truth. You're just sharing your opinion.
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Because there is a not so fine line between truth and delusion. It appears there are way too many that are willing to eschew the truth in favor of some delusion where a player we rightly mocked for several years, as he performed abysmally up the road in Shelbyville, is now a good addition to the team. Milan Lucic has been garbage for years, and we had been merciless in our rightful criticism and mocking of the Oilers for supporting him and the worst contract in hockey. There is nothing positive to having Lucic on the team. Nothing.
I get that people want to be big supporters of the team. They conflate being a fan with accepting all the warts of the team and ignoring the bad moves the team makes. I think we as a fan base are better than that. We don't have to swallow our pride and back garbage players and celebrate stupidity. Just like when Bryan Marchment was brought into the Flames family I cold never accept nor stomach the sight of the player in our uniform. It was a bad move, and it was an embarrassment to the organization . The same extends to the acquisition of Milan Lucic. He's a terrible player and no amount of burying the collective head in the sand is going to change that. You may not like hearing that, but it's the truth.
But you're missing the mark on team delusion completely.
I don't think anyone thinks Milan Lucic is worth his contract, or that he should have been targeted as an off season trade target. He's the same player he was in Edmonton, and a hilarious one at that because they traded Hall and gave him a huge contract.
None of that changed.
But then Calgary went and signed Neal and with that got themselves their very own boat anchor, and a boat anchor that didn't want to be here from the looks of it, adding to the weight of said anchor.
So the Flames moved Chernobyl for Three Mile Island, and so far it looks like the recovery effort of the Three Mile project will kill less citizens and for that they're happy.
This isn't a "wow is Lucic ever good!" view at all. It's an at least this guy is a better fit than Neal, or at least this guy gives a crap response that I see as valid and not the least bit delusional.
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But you're missing the mark on team delusion completely.
I don't think anyone thinks Milan Lucic is worth his contract, or that he should have been targeted as an off season trade target. He's the same player he was in Edmonton, and a hilarious one at that because they traded Hall and gave him a huge contract.
None of that changed.
But then Calgary went and signed Neal and with that got themselves their very own boat anchor, and a boat anchor that didn't want to be here from the looks of it, adding to the weight of said anchor.
So the Flames moved Chernobyl for Three Mile Island, and so far it looks like the recovery effort of the Three Mile project will kill less citizens and for that they're happy.
This isn't a "wow is Lucic ever good!" view at all. It's an at least this guy is a better fit than Neal, or at least this guy gives a crap response that I see as valid and not the least bit delusional.
I think that's fair. Only problem is from the beginning Neal had higher upside and Lucic was going to be the same/decline. So the boat anchor exchange is correct, but we were selling Neal at his lowest, when if we really wanted Neal could've started the season to work things out, and if it didn't work out the deal for Lucic could always be had because he wasn't going anywhere anytime.
I think that's fair. Only problem is from the beginning Neal had higher upside and Lucic was going to be the same/decline. So the boat anchor exchange is correct, but we were selling Neal at his lowest, when if we really wanted Neal could've started the season to work things out, and if it didn't work out the deal for Lucic could always be had because he wasn't going anywhere anytime.
If you see Neal bouncing back then for sure at least on the surface they could and should have brought him back.
I see Neal as a player that has been declining for three years though, and the contract won't go well in Edmonton.
I don't think that was an option though, so I see the get him out of here directive coming at the end of last year and they spent a summer trying to find a way to move him out before settling on the only option they found (and grinding the Oilers the best they could for the cap space and insurance).
Between the last game scratch, Neal's comments and even things like Tkachuk and his "we brought everyone back" remarks. I don't think it was an option to play here again.
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But you're missing the mark on team delusion completely.
I don't think anyone thinks Milan Lucic is worth his contract, or that he should have been targeted as an off season trade target. He's the same player he was in Edmonton, and a hilarious one at that because they traded Hall and gave him a huge contract.
None of that changed.
But then Calgary went and signed Neal and with that got themselves their very own boat anchor, and a boat anchor that didn't want to be here from the looks of it, adding to the weight of said anchor.
So the Flames moved Chernobyl for Three Mile Island, and so far it looks like the recovery effort of the Three Mile project will kill less citizens and for that they're happy.
This isn't a "wow is Lucic ever good!" view at all. It's an at least this guy is a better fit than Neal, or at least this guy gives a crap response that I see as valid and not the least bit delusional.
Did you miss the "I like Milan Lucic" as the thread title? Seems to indicate there are people trying to justify the trade and say he's actually a good player for this team. I am glad you're at least willing to admit the guy is a nuclear accident and is completely damaging to the team.
I'm really sick about hearing about Neal. He's gone. It proved to be a mistake to sign him as he showed he is a low character individual, more interested in his personal stats than helping the team in whatever way he's asked. I'm glad he is gone. But I will remind you that Lucic was pretty much the same player in Edmonton, where the fans hated him because he wouldn't do what was expected of him. We got someone else's problem back, and one with an even worse contract. I didn't think it was possible to get back something worse than James Neal, but Treliving managed to get it done. Unfortunately, because of what he brought back, that comparable is always going to be hanging out there. In all honesty, it would have been better to just buy Neal out and have the $1.9M dead cap space than have Lucic around.
And no, Lucic is not a good fit. In a league where skating and speed is the standard, Lucic is the proverbial sore thumb out there. The Flames were exposed last year by the Avs and they needed a guy that could score and provide some speed. What they brought in was someone who does neither, and clogs up $5M in cap space. So when it actually comes time to make a deal for a player that adds scoring and speed, that's a whole bunch of money locked into a player that does nothing but punch faces and glare at people. The hole the Flames needed to fill still exists, but Treliving has painted himself into a corner in trying to resolve that going forward. I really don't understand how anyone can twist themselves into a pretzel trying to justify him being on the team?
Lucic is reasonably quick without the puck, but undeniably loses a lot of speed with possession.
One thing I’ve noticed though is his passing. He’s automatic. He gets in trouble a lot but always finds a Flame to dish to. Crisp, confident passes.
He made two really nice plays in the defensive zone last night: he intercepted the puck, patiently surveyed his options, and perfectly placed a shot to clear it off the boards.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Did you miss the "I like Milan Lucic" as the thread title? Seems to indicate there are people trying to justify the trade and say he's actually a good player for this team. I am glad you're at least willing to admit the guy is a nuclear accident and is completely damaging to the team.
Did you miss the site intention of killing the trade topic and starting a "this is where we are" more positive Lucic topic?
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Originally Posted by New Era
I'm really sick about hearing about Neal. He's gone. It proved to be a mistake to sign him as he showed he is a low character individual, more interested in his personal stats than helping the team in whatever way he's asked. I'm glad he is gone. But I will remind you that Lucic was pretty much the same player in Edmonton, where the fans hated him because he wouldn't do what was expected of him. We got someone else's problem back, and one with an even worse contract. I didn't think it was possible to get back something worse than James Neal, but Treliving managed to get it done. Unfortunately, because of what he brought back, that comparable is always going to be hanging out there. In all honesty, it would have been better to just buy Neal out and have the $1.9M dead cap space than have Lucic around.
By all indications the buy out wasn't an option which turns you to the bring him back option or trade him for what you can.
At least they tacked +750K to the Oilers misery in exchange for equal savings on the new boat anchor.
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Originally Posted by New Era
And no, Lucic is not a good fit. In a league where skating and speed is the standard, Lucic is the proverbial sore thumb out there. The Flames were exposed last year by the Avs and they needed a guy that could score and provide some speed. What they brought in was someone who does neither, and clogs up $5M in cap space. So when it actually comes time to make a deal for a player that adds scoring and speed, that's a whole bunch of money locked into a player that does nothing but punch faces and glare at people. The hole the Flames needed to fill still exists, but Treliving has painted himself into a corner in trying to resolve that going forward. I really don't understand how anyone can twist themselves into a pretzel trying to justify him being on the team?
Man this gets repetitive.
Does Neal provide speed?
Was Neal going to have a top six role and produce in Calgary?
Does Neal play a physical game and protect teammates?
It's great that you have recognized a need for speed from the playoffs, but you'd have to turn James Neal into that on the trade market. I'm guessing that would be a tough summer, and look very much like the one that Treliving just had.
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...And no, Lucic is not a good fit. In a league where skating and speed is the standard, Lucic is the proverbial sore thumb out there. The Flames were exposed last year by the Avs and they needed a guy that could score and provide some speed...
The problems in the playoffs last year were never going to be fixed by adding a single player. But there are varying interpretations of what happened against Colorado in Round One, and I am of the opinion that the biggest correction for the Flames needed to occur is psychological.
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What they brought in was someone who does neither, and clogs up $5M in cap space. So when it actually comes time to make a deal for a player that adds scoring and speed, that's a whole bunch of money locked into a player that does nothing but punch faces and glare at people. The hole the Flames needed to fill still exists, but Treliving has painted himself into a corner in trying to resolve that going forward. I really don't understand how anyone can twist themselves into a pretzel trying to justify him being on the team?
I find it impossible to believe that you do not understand unless you are simply ignoring the numerous posts which point clearly to the circumstances behind Lucic's addition. At the end of the day, Lucic's presence provides some modest cap relief, and replaces a player that had already proved to be a very expensive hole. At the end of the day it is neither a significant expectation that Lucic can be even slightly better than the player he has replaced, nor is it a small matter if it provides even a slight improvement overall.
It seems to me that someone can only be this irate about Milan Lucic if they actually expected Treliving to trade James Neal for a speedy scoring winger for whom you pine. If there is any delusion occurring in this thread, it is the insinuation that something like this was ever even possible in the first place.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Im not up on contract law but is it possible to buy him out and re-sign him and end up saving cap like we did with Stone?
Unfortunately no. Due to his signing bonus structure they buyout cap hit is almost equal to his current cap hit for his contract years. Not much to be saved buying him out.
Im not up on contract law but is it possible to buy him out and re-sign him and end up saving cap like we did with Stone?
If you could indeed buy out Lucic on terms that made sense, I doubt the Flames would sign him even for the league minimum. But that I'm not sure about.
He is essentially here because he's a better fit than Neal and the trade saved us a bit of cap and lots of real dollars.
The Oilers didn't mind paying more real dollars because they thought there was some chance that Neal would actually perform like he's been doing.
Unfortunately no. Due to his signing bonus structure they buyout cap hit is almost equal to his current cap hit for his contract years. Not much to be saved buying him out.
Not in the last three years. The hit is $437,500. What the buyout hit more closely tracks is his actual dollar salary.
He made two really nice plays in the defensive zone last night: he intercepted the puck, patiently surveyed his options, and perfectly placed a shot to clear it off the boards.
Your comment highlights how bad he is when a normal play expected by a AHL callup who would be sent down if they messed up the play is used to pump Lucic's tires.
He also would have had a goal had Jankowski noticed him sitting alone and wide open at the the corner of the net. Who you play with affects your production.
I've seen him dish the puck nicely for a give and go several times, except the return pass was messed up by his linemate. Like was said above, his passing is simple, effective and almost always accurate, which is more than a lot of players on the team.
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