Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The vast majority of people in Alberta and Canada have definitely moved on and past Covid and are living normal lives again but the claim that only anti-vaxxers and freedom convoy folks are still posting about things is definitely not the case. If you check out Twitter or the major Reddit subs you will find plenty of folks posting daily about ongoing concerns and ongoing calls to reinstate public health measures such as masking. Covid has become a lifestyle for a small group of Canadians at both extremes.

They're doing so because they're tired. We absolutely should be masking in indoor situations, especially in schools. Covid is not endemic, we're just ignoring it because we don't want to bother.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Slava

Going against my better judgment here, but there is a troubling element about the government using the emergency measures to quell the protests. They could've tried other avenues, and sure didn't seem to. When you have had other protests (for example the rail blockades), the government negotiated and tried to resolve those matters. Why did they jump right to restricting peoples rights here?

For the record, I didn't love the truckers convoy, but I do have concerns about how this was handled. It's kind of a "I might disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it" scenario for me.

And as far as characterizing their protests as "illegal occupations", that is what civil disobedience is. It's non-violent protest. Again, their particular message here wasn't mine, but non-violent protest is a big deal. And to be clear, part of that civil disobedience is people getting arrested and detained for those actions. It's basically how things should be functioning in a democracy in my view, but the restriction of rights is something that has to be examined.

"Non violent" does not equal peaceful and that was lost on both the protestors and their "organizers". Be it the honking, the border blockaded or all the stupid rolling convoys that took place. Just because nobody is getting pelted with stones, that does not meat it is peaceful.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Funny that you never took such a strong stance when the UCP took away the ability for striking workers to impede people from trying to cross a legal picket line for any amount of time and also made it harder to set up secondary picket lines but all of the sudden you’re all about protecting the right to peacefully protest. I’d hate to assume that this is complete and total hypocrisy on your part.

What's this in regard to? I don't remember any conversation about this...but I'm not getting any younger I guess!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

"Non violent" does not equal peaceful and that was lost on both the protestors and their "organizers". Be it the honking, the border blockaded or all the stupid rolling convoys that took place. Just because nobody is getting pelted with stones, that does not meat it is peaceful.

Honking is violent now? Is that what you're saying here?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honking is violent now? Is that what you're saying here?

Are you classifying prolonged torture as non-violent?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Are you classifying prolonged torture as non-violent?

Or even peaceful.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

If farmers are already doing it, which they are, then why does Trudeau need to stick his nose in it and meddle around slapping regulation here and regulation there. People who are already doing a good job do not need his expertise on the subject, when he is far from an expert on so many things.

Maybe his supporters expect him to give direction at every turn, but most in Alberta if doing a good job want to just be left alone by the federal government so they can continue to do a good job.

It causes problems when people from Ottawa who have no clue about our way of life come out with policies and regulations that end up hurting Alberta’s industry and prosperity. If the sovereignty act can help limit their power in any way it should definitely be explored in some situations.

There certainly is a bell curve of adoption of best practices. You have farms that are continually testing new techniques and practices looking for an edge you have some that wait until you have a large body of farmers already doing the practice as proof it works and you have some that refuse to change practice because this is the way they have always done it. The purpose of legislation around this type of thing would be to bring the back of the bell curve forward. The industry organizations currently recognize that a reduction in fertilizer usage is possible without reducing yields.

But my comment wasn’t really about the effectiveness or even the rationality of the federal regulation. It was what does the sovereignty act do about it? Either the power to regulate fertilizer is in the provincial powers or it isn’t. The sovereignty act doesn’t help. For better or worse Ottawa has the powers it’s trying to exercise.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honking is violent now? Is that what you're saying here?

No, but it is certainly not peaceful. These wackos convinced themselves that their protests were peaceful; Prolonged occupations, incessant noise and border blockades are certainly not peaceful.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honking is violent now? Is that what you're saying here?

Deprivation of sleep and subjection to noise, both of which the freedumb convoys inflicted on the citizens of Ottawa for prolonged periods, are two of the five techniques that have been ruled as being illegal torture.

[SebC]

I'm not so sure Alberta won't get away with selective non-enforcement of laws it doesn't like. That's basically been Vancouver's drug/prostitution policy for years, and they're a municipality that doesn't even have any constitutional rights.

[kevman]

You know the old saying "if you don't vote liberal in your 20's you have no heart and if you don't vote conservative in your 30's you have no brain"?

Well I feel like conservative politicians across North America are trying their best at changing that narative and scaring away people in their 30's.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by kevman

You know the old saying "if you don't vote liberal in your 20's you have no heart and if you don't vote conservative in your 30's you have no brain"?

Well I feel like conservative politicians across North America are trying their best at changing that narative and scaring away people in their 30's.

I'm in my 40s now. If anything, I'm even more liberal than I was in my 20s.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

What's this in regard to? I don't remember any conversation about this...but I'm not getting any younger I guess!

Hypocrisy it is then. Thanks for confirming.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm in my 40s now. If anything, I'm even more liberal than I was in my 20s.

Same. As I get older, I believe more and more in no man, woman, or child left behind. Wealth in community health.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Hypocrisy it is then. Thanks for confirming.

Again...no idea what this is in reference to. You can say that's hypocritical and that's fine. But I just plain don't know what you're talking about.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm in my 40s now. If anything, I'm even more liberal than I was in my 20s.

Yep, me too. Almost 40 here. I used to vote conservative in my 20s until I finally had enough and got tired of the extreme arrogance, corruption, lack of social empathy, poor financial management (party of fiscal responsibility my ass) and general sympathy to groups that I don't want to ever associate with. The advent of the UCP just exacerbated the problem, especially with its extreme right-wing tentacles that are now emerging from the depths of that deplorable party.

[Knut]

A lot of us are in the same boat. The UCP is not our parents Conservative party. Our parents are the boomers who started liberal and went more conservative as they aged. They passed down their ideas to us about working hard, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and to be honest instilled some homophobia/xenophobia into us. Most of them still vote for the UCP because they are the "home team" and the liberals are going to ruin their small bussinesses (in their minds). They flat out ignore all the deplorable parts.

I have certainly shifted more liberal with time and will be voting NDP for the first time ever next election. I wont agree with some of their policies but the extreme factions are at least marginalized more.

The Health care system needs a money injection in a bad way. Same with Education. I also think an ALberta NDP that wants to get pipelines built is probably the best way to make it happen. They should rebrand to ADP though (The Alberta Democractic Party) and dissavow some of the more extreme parts of the Federal NDP platform.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Muta

Yep, me too. Almost 40 here. I used to vote conservative in my 20s until I finally had enough and got tired of the extreme arrogance, corruption, lack of social empathy, poor financial management (party of fiscal responsibility my ass) and general sympathy to groups that I don't want to ever associate with. The advent of the UCP just exacerbated the problem, especially with its extreme right-wing tentacles that are now emerging from the depths of that deplorable party.

I voted conservative when I was younger because they were good at putting on a display of competence and "business" savviness. I saw through that veneer later in my 20's and have been voting anyone but conservative since. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cutting off your nose to save face isn't good government (it is a good strategy for ongoing crisis' to whip up votes though).

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Again...no idea what this is in reference to. You can say that's hypocritical and that's fine. But I just plain don't know what you're talking about.

I’m referencing the selective nature in which you choose to try and “defend” our rights to protest. You randomly quoted a post of mine to start off your rant on the right to protest, even though my post had nothing to do with the right to protest. In my response I say it’s funny that you never took such a strong stance when another government passed legislation that reduced people’s ability to protest, giving two specific examples. You responded by saying you have no idea what I’m talking about, that you’re not getting any younger and are forgetful rather than to comment on the legislation that even if you wanted to pretend you weren’t aware of before obviously were after I mentioned it to you. This isn’t complicated Slava.

[Duruss]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

I voted conservative when I was younger because they were good at putting on a display of competence and "business" savviness. I saw through that veneer later in my 20's and have been voting anyone but conservative since. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cutting off your nose to save face isn't good government (it is a good strategy for ongoing crisis' to whip up votes though).

This is pretty close to my swing too. I have watched years of austerity politics fail around the globe, time to try something else.