Autonomous Driving Features in Cars 2020

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well there has to at 20 safety features and technology advances over the years that make your car safer then adaptive cruise. Electronic power steering, traction control, backup camera, advance roll over airbags, automatic braking, Bluetooth, to name just a few. There are also cases where it can prove not so beneficial; When there has been a significant speed limit decrease, from say 100 down to 70, down to 50 and you change lanes into one with clear sailing. If your not on top of things, you will accelerate right up to 100 in the 50 zone. Another case is where a young driver has learned to drive using adaptive cruise in moms SUV and then gets a car of their own that does not have the option and BAMMMMM rear end someone on the hi way. First hand experience with both of these...

For sure, these systems are not foolproof. It’s not my intent to undervalue to safety contributor of ABS,, traction control etc.

Adaptive cruise systems can reduce high speed highway collisions to near zero, when properly utilized.

Nothing else does that. Every other safety system in a vehicle reacts to the catastrophe already in progress, as opposed to preventing it from occurring.

Regarding your own rear ended experience, how’s your health? Any concussion or whiplash effects that haven’t gone away? That stuff is no joke.

[burn_this_city]

Left Vancouver today and was in a traffic jam from Surrey to Abbotsford. The car drove for about 50km in stop and go traffic and all I did was watch and keep my hand on the wheel. I love driving, but this was great, no stress.

Also figured out you can give it gas to keep a closer gap or take off quicker and it doesn’t disable the system.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

For sure, these systems are not foolproof. It’s not my intent to undervalue to safety contributor of ABS,, traction control etc.

Adaptive cruise systems can reduce high speed highway collisions to near zero, when properly utilized.

Nothing else does that. Every other safety system in a vehicle reacts to the catastrophe already in progress, as opposed to preventing it from occurring.

Regarding your own rear ended experience, how’s your health? Any concussion or whiplash effects that haven’t gone away? That stuff is no joke.

You are right when it comes to simple rear end collisions avoidance, scroll to page 7 (ACC meaning adaptive cruise control systems). Autonomous braking (not to be confused solely with ACC) is far and away the single largest contributing collision avoidance feature in today's vehicles. I actually have a graphic of this study in my desk at work as safety continuously climbs up the priority list for cat buying consumers. Most budget buyers stress they want safety in their vehicle but then balk saying the latest technology is not necessary....

https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/44159

Once automakers can perfect and implement traffic light detection and enhance lane change alert systems, the safer we will all be. Traffic light detection is alr day there, it's just a matter of getting enough safe driving hours to have this implemented. Cars changing lanes by themselves is a litlle further way for most consumers budgets at the moment, by the technology is there. Imagine cruising down the hi way, putting on your signal light and your car slowing down or speeding up to safely changes lanes when there's an opening in traffic.

[Flamenspiel]

My main concern with autonomous systems is most car companies have very poor software distribution. In the IT world there are daily and weekly patching delivery systems that keep your system protected day to day. Car companies do this in months and years, there is simply not enough risk mitigation and it’s too expensive.

A simple map upgrade costs 200$ and comes out annually. Once the real bad actors get going on steering and other safety systems there will be a bloodbath on the road.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

My main concern with autonomous systems is most car companies have very poor software distribution. In the IT world there are daily and weekly patching delivery systems that keep your system protected day to day. Car companies do this in months and years, there is simply not enough risk mitigation and it’s too expensive.

A simple map upgrade costs 200$ and comes out annually. Once the real bad actors get going on steering and other safety systems there will be a bloodbath on the road.

Yeah, there's not going to be a bloodbath.

[dino7c]

Seems like more things to go wrong...I hope people don't forget how to drive

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

My main concern with autonomous systems is most car companies have very poor software distribution. In the IT world there are daily and weekly patching delivery systems that keep your system protected day to day. Car companies do this in months and years, there is simply not enough risk mitigation and it’s too expensive.

A simple map upgrade costs 200$ and comes out annually. Once the real bad actors get going on steering and other safety systems there will be a bloodbath on the road.

Well that was a concern at one time. New cars do over the air updates now for the most part. Once you get home it will connect to your home wifi and update itself. Just like any other computer. Apple CarPlay and android auto have made map updates and “factory navigation” useless. Super Cruise by Cadillac is already there, they’re marketing as hands free driving vs self driving
https://www.cadillac.com/ownership/v...y/super-cruise

[ben voyonsdonc]

I fricking love the adaptive cruise control in my Hyundai. It might be my favourite new feature.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

My main concern with autonomous systems is most car companies have very poor software distribution. In the IT world there are daily and weekly patching delivery systems that keep your system protected day to day. Car companies do this in months and years, there is simply not enough risk mitigation and it’s too expensive.

A simple map upgrade costs 200$ and comes out annually. Once the real bad actors get going on steering and other safety systems there will be a bloodbath on the road.

It doesn’t need to be perfect. Just better than the relatively terrible human drivers. Though reaction when computer plies through a group of kids will be even more anger than if a drunk plowed through kids even though it will happen far less frequently.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by GGG

It doesn’t need to be perfect. Just better than the relatively terrible human drivers. Though reaction when computer plies through a group of kids will be even more anger than if a drunk plowed through kids even though it will happen far less frequently.

Indeed, automated driving systems are generally already safer then human drivers. but for the public a 50% reduction in accidents/fatalities isn't going to convince them to let the car drive because their under the false belief they're better and don't want to give up control.

Computer driven cars probably need to be 99% safer before the general public falls in line. And I have no idea how you prove that. But i personally can't wait for my car to chauffeur me around while i surf CP or take a nap.

If we look at the Q2 data,

Tesla with Autopilot engaged - 1 accident per 4.53 million miles
Tesla without autopilot but safety features on - 1 accident per 2.27 million miles
Tesla driven by human - 1 accident per 1.56 million miles
General accident rate - 1 accident per 479,000 miles

[Fuzz]

I still think these full auto systems have a really long way to go before they are useful in winter.


I also think those Tesla numbers need to be taken in context. Autopilot is going to be used more on long drives where the chance of a collision is much lower(though higher consequences) so it would makes sense for the miles driven to be large number. Humans would be in control for the more complicated driving, where there is a higher likelihood of collision. So autopilot takes the easy miles, while humans take the tricky ones.


I'm not sure you can just look at those numbers and say autopilot is safer, though Tesla would like you to interpret it that way.

[CroFlames]

I had an Uber driver pick me up in a full self driving Tesla. Drove me all the way to the Cincinnati airport (which is in Kentucky) from downtown Cincinnati on autonomous mode and it was awesome. I became a believer that day.

Then I quipped if I should tip the car or him haha (I tipped neither, to be fair to them).

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Seems like more things to go wrong...I hope people don't forget how to drive

This will happen 1000%.

I used to have 30 phone numbers memorized. Now I know my own cell phone and my home phone from when I was a kid. I don't even know if my wife's phone number is 403 or 587 area code.

Smart cars will certainly make people forget how to drive once they are the norm and not the exception.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Indeed, automated driving systems are generally already safer then human drivers. but for the public a 50% reduction in accidents/fatalities isn't going to convince them to let the car drive because their under the false belief they're better and don't want to give up control.

This is me. While I only have basic autopilot in my Tesla, I struggle to use it. And when I do I’m super nervous even though it works flawlessly (in the winter too).

I had a motorcyclist do an aggressive pass-by on my right on Deerfoot just as I was getting out of autopilot to switch lanes. My car detected the moron and swerved back into the lane. The motorcyclist should have died if i was fully driving (but I think it should have steered me out of the way regardless).

I don’t know what the mental hurdle is to trust my autopilot more but this is definitely a real thing.

[InglewoodFan]

I just did a 2800 km road trip in my new Mazda which has a lot of these systems. This is all new to me, the car it replaced was 10 years old. Loved the adaptive cruise, especially in the stop and go of lower mainland near Vancouver. Did have one odd thing happen, was in cruise control with no one directly in front of me on some two lane highway through the mountains east of Sicamous. A car outside the range of my adaptive cruise moved into a left turn lane and slowed to a stop to wait for a gap. My car picked it up as stopped in my lane and started with "brake now" warnings and it began to slow me down. I hit the gas and the warning went away and I kept going fine. All I can think of is the road was slightly curved to the left and my lane keep system seems to lose its alignment on curves.

I still think the safety features are useful and important, it was one of the biggest reasons we pulled the trigger on a new car. But I also think there is still a ways to go on some of them. I think it is pretty fantastic that these systems are available in the lower end of the market (we test drove a Kia Seltos with them for example). If I could afford to put my upcoming new driver kid in one, I wouldn't hesitate.

[browna]

The biggest stress free drive to Winsport from down here is when the construction crews finish up the ring road. 35 minutes down to 15.

Adaptive cruise in the car works well, best utilized for us on the highway past Lake Louise when it goes mostly single lane to Kamloops. In the city, not so sure, because of the aforementioned distance settings it hasn't been used.

The lane correction works well to, it's active so it keeps the car in the lane which is an odd feeling if you have to fight it. Works for about 15 seconds if you aren't touching the wheel but then it asks you to grab the wheel.

Wish we had the active cruise in the truck, and the lane guidence just shakes the wheel which is better then nothing. But it does have self parking...it will take a while still to trust taking hands off the wheel as it spins both ways while backing in.

[Fuzz]

Auto braking is not ideal when you are in Scotland on one lane roads, where the goal is to drive head on as fast as possible, dive into the pullout, then cut back as the other vehicle sails by, ideally in one nice smooth motion. Kind of distracting when your dash is all lit up flashing red and screaming at you, while the car(and wife) wince in anticipation of certain death.

[ernie]

I had auto-braking in my Volvo S-60 and it saved a skateboarders life who lost control on the sidewalk and flew in front of my car. I certainly didn’t have time to hit the brakes.

Now we have two Honda’s with Honda Sensing. With the lane assist, adaptive cruise etc it really does reduce fatigue on long drives. I recommend it. You can turn it off in situations where it is problematic.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

My main concern with autonomous systems is most car companies have very poor software distribution. In the IT world there are daily and weekly patching delivery systems that keep your system protected day to day. Car companies do this in months and years, there is simply not enough risk mitigation and it’s too expensive.

A simple map upgrade costs 200$ and comes out annually. Once the real bad actors get going on steering and other safety systems there will be a bloodbath on the road.

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well that was a concern at one time. New cars do over the air updates now for the most part. Once you get home it will connect to your home wifi and update itself. Just like any other computer. Apple CarPlay and android auto have made map updates and “factory navigation” useless. Super Cruise by Cadillac is already there, they’re marketing as hands free driving vs self driving
https://www.cadillac.com/ownership/v...y/super-cruise

I was going to chime in and say manufacturers could help the process by pushing updates to owners rather than forcing them to come in to the dealership. I was not aware that some (most) now do that. My 2016 GMC does not, maybe our 2018 Nissan does (?). My truck is still running the same map that came with it because it's not worth it for me to pay extra $$$ and take it to the dealer to update a simple map.

I am not sure I agree that Apple car Play and Android Auto have made vehicle nav systems obsolete. Not everyone has a phone, not everyone has enough data on their phone, and a lot of driving is in areas with unreliable phone service so not sure how these apps can be full replacements quite yet.

[burn_this_city]

Our 2018 BMW does OTA map updates, but you still need to go through the dealer to get any engine/body DME (computer) updates. It's a profit centre for the dealerships, they'll charge you a couple hours for a tech to hook up a computer to your OBD2 and sit there while it updates. I don't think there is much reason to update the DME unless there are drivability improvements.