MacKinnon vs... absolutely nobody from this era - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

FanIn80 · 06-02-2021, 08:51 AM

McDavid? Please. Crosby? Not even.

More like Gretzky, Mario, Bossy and Orr.

Quote:

The Colorado Avalanche center has scored 66 points (28 goals, 38 assists) in 45 playoff games in his NHL career entering Game 2 of the Stanley Cup Second Round against the Vegas Golden Knights in Denver on Wednesday (10 p.m. ET; NBCSN, CBC, SN, TVAS). Colorado leads the best-of-7 series 1-0.

That means MacKinnon is averaging 0.62 goals, 0.84 assists and 1.47 points per game in the playoffs.

The only players who have played at least 45 playoff games and averaged more than 0.62 goals per game are Lemieux (0.71) and Mike Bossy (0.66). Maurice Richard also averaged 0.62 goals per game.

The only players who have played at least 45 playoff games and averaged more than 0.84 assists per game are Gretzky (1.25), Lemieux (0.90) and Orr (0.89).

The only players who have played at least 45 playoff games and averaged more than 1.47 points per game are Gretzky (1.84) and Lemieux (1.61).

https://www.nhl.com/news/colorado-av...?tid=277548856

Inglewood Jack · 06-02-2021, 08:56 AM

this is not even scoring era adjusted, is it...

jayswin · 06-02-2021, 08:57 AM

McKinnon is the best player in the NHL, imo.

DeluxeMoustache · 06-02-2021, 08:57 AM

I remember watching him in 2014 playoffs against Minnesota, they lost in 7. He had some flashes of brilliance and I was thinking I couldn’t wait to see him hit his prime. I think he even had 10 points then

Gotta appreciate a player that takes it to the next level in the playoffs.

FanIn80 · 06-02-2021, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

this is not even scoring era adjusted, is it...

I was literally just wondering what that would look like

Strange Brew · 06-02-2021, 09:05 AM

MacKinnon is an incredible talent and he plays on a very good team. His playoff stats are off the charts.

Yet he has never been past the second round of the playoffs.

Makarov · 06-02-2021, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

MacKinnon is an incredible talent and he plays on a very good team. His playoff stats are off the charts.

Yet he has never been past the second round of the playoffs.

Colorado has to think that, if they can get past Las Vegas, it will be smooth sailing to the Stanley Cup Final. I know its the NHL playoffs, and anything can happen, but it would be a huge upset if either Winnipeg or Montreal won more than a game against Colorado at this point.

looooob · 06-02-2021, 09:15 AM

I don't say this to diminish MacKinnon (at all), he's a wonderful singular talent and I suspect if we were to era adjust some numbers he'd look even better, but in these metrics he also benefits from his relative youth- that makes the Gretzky and Mario numbers even more staggering as it covers a career that includes ageing (Bossy and Orr both retired- sadly- quite young)

I looked at Jari Kurri as one example- an amazing playoff scorer anyways but through about age 25 or 26 he was over 1.6PPG, but that went down in his later years

transplant99 · 06-02-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by looooob

I don't say this to diminish MacKinnon (at all), he's a wonderful singular talent and I suspect if we were to era adjust some numbers he'd look even better, but in these metrics he also benefits from his relative youth- that makes the Gretzky and Mario numbers even more staggering as it covers a career that includes ageing (Bossy and Orr both retired- sadly- quite young)

I looked at Jari Kurri as one example- an amazing playoff scorer anyways but through about age 25 or 26 he was over 1.6PPG, but that went down in his later years

But doesnt his age actually make it all the more impressive?

He needs to do it for a number of more years to stay among the group listed, but thus far he is off the charts in his ability to be the best player every time he hits the ice in a playoff game.

I know during my lifetime I can count on one hand the number of players that have stood out to me like he does. I dont have a big recollection of Orr (but have heard from opposition players how overwhelmed they were with him) because of age and never saw Richard in his heyday. But i was there for all of Lemieux, Gretzky (ugh) and Bossy.

Mackinnon is on that hand and has been for 3 years now.

Goaltenders rarely get mentioned in these things either, but 3 stand out above all others for me and should be at least on a parallel list.

Oling_Roachinen · 06-02-2021, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

But doesnt his age actually make it all the more impressive?

Well Gretzky had 98 points in his first 45 playoff games (completed when he was 23). Lemieux had 90 (done so when he was 26).

They hurt their own averages when old man Lemieux was only able to put up a measley 17 points in 18 games as a 35 year old coming back from retirement for the second time after his ailments.

looooob · 06-02-2021, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well Gretzky had 98 points in his first 45 playoff games (completed when he was 23). Lemieux had 90 (done so when he was 26).

They hurt their own averages when old man Lemieux was only able to put up a measley 17 points in 18 games as a 35 year old coming back from retirement for the second time after his ailments.

I agree with you (heck I made the point above) but I'm also seeing Trannys point in an extent- whereas young players (I'm lumping alot of random guys here than might not be the best examples) from Marner to Saint Connor to (insert random flames guy here Johnny or Tkachuk or..) get a narrative 'they are still learning or need to figure out the playoffs' that is not the case for MacKinnon- so there is that side- of course he's still going to fall victim to the 'he needs to learn how to win' narrative until he does so

MrMike · 06-02-2021, 09:42 AM

His age doesn’t, you d have to look at the players first 45 games. When players are older their production slows down once they enter their 30s.

Still very impressive, but cherry picked a bit.

Strange Brew · 06-02-2021, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makarov

Colorado has to think that, if they can get past Las Vegas, it will be smooth sailing to the Stanley Cup Final. I know its the NHL playoffs, and anything can happen, but it would be a huge upset if either Winnipeg or Montreal won more than a game against Colorado at this point.

For sure, looks like their year to make it to the finals. And they look impressive as hell right now. But this is a club that has disappointed before so we'll see.

transplant99 · 06-02-2021, 09:49 AM

I guess i should have included that this is just by the "eye test" for me.

Lemieux and Gretzky were on another level....NM is looking close to joining them right now. Can he sustain it for another 8 years or so? Who knows, but damn he is something else. Crosby wasnt even this impressive at the same age IMO though he was insane that 1st cup year.

FBI · 06-02-2021, 09:55 AM

So glad we’re not talking about playoff choker McDavid!

Macman · 06-02-2021, 10:01 AM

You have to give the Avalanche credit for picking him number 1 in 2013 which wasn't a great draft. Was he the undisputed #1 choice, I don't recall.

Not following the Avs to closely I first really noticed him here in the 2019 playoffs when they beat the Flames in 5 games. He literally took his team on his back and was just a beast which is what the still is.

He's destined to win a cup for sure.

looooob · 06-02-2021, 10:04 AM

edit: some sort of weird double post. nm

looooob · 06-02-2021, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macman

You have to give the Avalanche credit for picking him number 1 in 2013 which wasn't a great draft. Was he the undisputed #1 choice, I don't recall.

.

Mackinnon was a very famous prospect and a clear number one. I think more than rumors that Feaster (oh loveable Jay Feaster) tried to move all of his firsts, if not all of his picks to get the number one that year

https://flamesnation.ca/2020/06/27/t...-pick-in-2013/

edit: I suppose I should be cautious as Drouin (wildly), Barkov, Jones all also got alot of attention that year- I just feel as if MacKinnon was the guy for so long and seemed like the obvious choice to me

Enoch Root · 06-02-2021, 10:11 AM

Gretzky and Lemieux were on another level.

MacKinnon doesn't compare to them, but for me, he has shown that he is comparable to Crosby. Second drawer in the all-time-greats cabinet.

(and yes, it isn't fair to compare career point percentages until he has had a full career, including the lower-production 30-something years)

Oling_Roachinen · 06-02-2021, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by looooob

Mackinnon was a very famous prospect and a clear number one.

He wasn't that clear. Certainly not like McDavid or Crosby. Probably closer to Hall and Seguin where no one would have been super surprised if Tyler went ahead of Taylor. Except there were sort of the four with MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin and less-so Barkov. At least that's what media would have had us believe.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=88636

(Jones is first)

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/2013-...aft-rankings-1

(Jones is first)

https://thehockeywriters.com/2013-nh...ouin-decision/

(Drouin is first, MacKinnon third)

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospe...february-2013/

(Jones is first, MacKinnon third)