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Old 06-23-2020, 06:58 PM   #21
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What freedom? The ability to enter private businesses?
The freedom to show off his lipstick.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:26 PM   #22
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The freedom to not have the government tell me what to wear.

If a private business chooses as a matter of policy to require patrons to wear a mask then fine.

And again, I wear a mask whenever I enter a business, but that's my choice.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:27 PM   #23
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I wore a mask to get a haircut the other day and could barely breathe and thought I was going to pass out. Is this how everyone feels and they just suck it up??
Again, recommendation for the Bauer masks. They sell them at Pro Skate or are available on their website.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:38 PM   #24
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The freedom to not have the government tell me what to wear.
Like seat belts, hard hats, or steel toed boots?
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:43 PM   #25
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Like seat belts, hard hats, or steel toed boots?
Pants. No one would wear pants if we didnít have to.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:53 PM   #26
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Like seat belts, hard hats, or steel toed boots?
Don't be obtuse. The data on mask efficacy is no where near as robust as the data on the above.
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Old 06-23-2020, 08:01 PM   #27
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Don't be obtuse. The data on mask efficacy is no where near as robust as the data on the above.
So your issue isn’t about rights then.

It’s about effectiveness in exchange for rights.

What level of proof of benefit would be required for you to sacrifice your rights?

Seat belts save about 13,000 lives in the US each year

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Old 06-23-2020, 08:04 PM   #28
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I suppose you could say I'm the type of germaphobe that was always prepared for a pandemic. Always washing my hands to the point of cracking my skin. Using paper towels to exit washrooms, always using my feet to open doors and using coats to grab handles, etc. I don't think I've ever actually had the flu, ever despite only having a flu shot once when we had our first born. Certainly never any illness that's made me unable to work for more than a single day. All of that said I haven't worn a mask yet and don't plan to unless mandated. I simply don't like wearing the mask and as a person that's always been worked continuously through the outbreak taking my temperature every morning, following strict guidelines I'm not overly worried about contracting it as I simply don't put myself in situations where the mask is going to make a difference. It's got nothing to do with me believing I need my freedom and more that it's not mandatory therefore I choose not to wear it. I see that some of you will disagree and even call me out for it but if it's mandated I will wear one, but it's not, so I'm not.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:04 PM   #29
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Don't be obtuse. The data on mask efficacy is no where near as robust as the data on the above.
Hard hats are a perfect example. The level of protection is only an 8lb ball dropped from 5 feet, or a 2.2lb dart dropped the same distance. That's hardly all that protective in the context of a modern construction site.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:41 PM   #30
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The freedom to not have the government tell me what to wear.

If a private business chooses as a matter of policy to require patrons to wear a mask then fine.

And again, I wear a mask whenever I enter a business, but that's my choice.
Are you required to wear clothes in public? Damn the government stopping you from being a nudist!

Get the #### over yourself. That's not what freedom is. This is called an accepted social norm to help take care of each other. It's what we do in a civilization.

Jesus Christ.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:46 PM   #31
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Again I am genuinely surprised that people are willing to give up their freedom to the government for (maybe) some safety.

What is the rationale for that?
Perhaps you could liken it more to handicap/expectant mother parking spots at the mall? People certainly have the freedom to act like selfish inconsiderate dbags and park there because it's convenient for only themselves....or they could be considerate towards the welfare of other less fortunate people and inconvenience themselves with 30 extra seconds parking elsewhere.

It's not about you and your childish needs to rally against authority. Its about preventing your spread to others should you be in the asymptomatic carrier/prodromal phase.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:47 PM   #32
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I suppose you could say I'm the type of germaphobe that was always prepared for a pandemic. Always washing my hands to the point of cracking my skin. Using paper towels to exit washrooms, always using my feet to open doors and using coats to grab handles, etc. I don't think I've ever actually had the flu, ever despite only having a flu shot once when we had our first born. Certainly never any illness that's made me unable to work for more than a single day. All of that said I haven't worn a mask yet and don't plan to unless mandated. I simply don't like wearing the mask and as a person that's always been worked continuously through the outbreak taking my temperature every morning, following strict guidelines I'm not overly worried about contracting it as I simply don't put myself in situations where the mask is going to make a difference. It's got nothing to do with me believing I need my freedom and more that it's not mandatory therefore I choose not to wear it. I see that some of you will disagree and even call me out for it but if it's mandated I will wear one, but it's not, so I'm not.
I guess my only response is that you're lucky that you live in a place that has such a low rate where you can take that sort of risk. The rest of us aren't so lucky, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that not enough people are wearing masks and taking this seriously any longer.

I guess all I would say is that if a lot of people voluntarily wear masks in public, then it won't have to be mandated, so your concern over mandatory masks would go away.

Seriously, I don't get what the big deal is. It's an extra piece of clothing. Treat it like an accessory and jazz it up a little! Make it fun!

Complacency has been our doom in the U.S., so all I'm saying is to learn from it. Wear one until a vaccine is available (which may only be a few months longer) and/or you have confirmed antibodies. It's a tiny inconvenience that helps you and everyone else around you.

Don't let Canada become like us.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:49 PM   #33
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Hard hats are a perfect example. The level of protection is only an 8lb ball dropped from 5 feet, or a 2.2lb dart dropped the same distance. That's hardly all that protective in the context of a modern construction site.
I hit my hard hat on so much stuff all the time that I can't imagine not wearing one. I would be perpetually concussed...
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:54 PM   #34
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I have been wearing a mask, but just some of the time.

My decision making is based on reading I have done informing a situational risk assessment, maintaining awareness, and avoiding or minimizing risk.

I have been what I consider to be suitably careful. Usually wear a mask if I have to go to a grocery store, rarely if ever when I am outside.

Suppose if I have to run in and just grab milk, a 2 min in and out, at a grocery store I know well, and where I know where to go, and then use automated checkout. I hopped out of the car and forgot my mask - well, I might not bother turning around to get it. I’ll go out of my way to stay suitably away from everyone, and be in and out as quick as possible.

I don’t think that makes me a sociopath.

When the pollen was flying a week or two ago, I had to go in a grocery store, and I knew I had sneezed earlier in the day, so I was sure to wear a mask. I was satisfied that I posed no risk to anyone based on my previous 10-14 days exposure, but still wore one.

Went to pick up food at a restaurant with no customers, didn’t wear one.

Went to a restaurant which had re-opened, to pick up food, and I wore one. Servers were wearing them, most patrons weren’t.

I don’t feel like I have put anyone at risk because those are really the only exposures I am typically accepting these days.

I would support a mandate, should they wish to impose one, because I think a lot of people can not be relied upon for the appropriate level of informedness, caution, critical thinking, etc. And if they imposed a mandate, it would be because too many people are at that level of lowest common denominator introducing unnecessary risk

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Old 06-23-2020, 10:04 PM   #35
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I mask wear indoors.

Along with the correlative evidence my motivator is guilt avoidance. If I wear to infect someone and later found out that my infection chain wiped out an old folks home I would have difficulty living with that outcome if I didnít.
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Old 06-23-2020, 10:54 PM   #36
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So your issue isnít about rights then.

Itís about effectiveness in exchange for rights.

What level of proof of benefit would be required for you to sacrifice your rights?

Seat belts save about 13,000 lives in the US each year
Every right you give up in a free society is weighed against the societal benefit. There isn't enough data to suggest mask wearing is enough of a societal benefit to outweigh the legal obligation to wear one.

If you make something illegal you have to be willing to punish. I'm not sure mask wearing is something I'm willing to let the government fine or imprison over.


I can't multiquote on my phone so to address some other posts.

I agree it's somewhat selfish, but in a free society people have the right to be selfisH.

And finally social norms are just that, norms, not law. I'm not staying you shouldn't wear one, but I am saying you shouldn't be forced to by the government.
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Old 06-23-2020, 10:56 PM   #37
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I mask wear indoors.

Along with the correlative evidence my motivator is guilt avoidance. If I wear to infect someone and later found out that my infection chain wiped out an old folks home I would have difficulty living with that outcome if I didnít.
I'm somewhat the same but I also factor in the economic impact on a business of having to shut down if someone tests positive for Covid. My local Barbet shop was closed for months, it would be awful if they had to shut down for a couple of weeks because I didn't wear a mask and someone tested positive.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:01 PM   #38
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Every right you give up in a free society is weighed against the societal benefit. There isn't enough data to suggest mask wearing is enough of a societal benefit to outweigh the legal obligation to wear one.

If you make something illegal you have to be willing to punish. I'm not sure mask wearing is something I'm willing to let the government fine or imprison over.


I can't multiquote on my phone so to address some other posts.

I agree it's somewhat selfish, but in a free society people have the right to be selfisH.

And finally social norms are just that, norms, not law. I'm not staying you shouldn't wear one, but I am saying you shouldn't be forced to by the government.
Your position doesnít really allow for rapidly emergent threats.

There was not sufficient evidence at the time the lockdown was initiated that it would work or that the severity was required. I donít recall where you were at on that particular issue. Even now the evidence of lockdown effectiveness is circumstantial in that areas that locked down sooner and let cases fall further before reopening are doing better. However I think it would be difficult to argue against at least Swedish level restrictions were required.

Even the current level of restrictions there is limited evidence that they are at the correct level. Itís only by monitoring Rt that these restrictions can be optimized.

So why is masks the line in the sand (not just for you)?
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:12 AM   #39
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There isn't enough data to suggest mask wearing is enough of a societal benefit to outweigh the legal obligation to wear one.
That there isn't enough data is one of the most important reasons to wear them. Anti-maskers are too concerned with the selfish benefits of being right, and not enough with the selfless consequences being wrong.

Mask wearing is an incredibly cheap call option.
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Old 06-24-2020, 09:18 AM   #40
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Every right you give up in a free society is weighed against the societal benefit. There isn't enough data to suggest mask wearing is enough of a societal benefit to outweigh the legal obligation to wear one.

If you make something illegal you have to be willing to punish. I'm not sure mask wearing is something I'm willing to let the government fine or imprison over.


I can't multiquote on my phone so to address some other posts.

I agree it's somewhat selfish, but in a free society people have the right to be selfisH.

And finally social norms are just that, norms, not law. I'm not staying you shouldn't wear one, but I am saying you shouldn't be forced to by the government.
Governments have lots to balance here. Right now, the balance of evidence suggests that mandating masks is likely the best path forward to allowing things to open up and getting back towards normal.

If the choice is keep everything closed, or start re-opening with a mask mandate indoors, then IMO, the latter gives people more freedom.
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