Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 06-16-2020, 12:46 PM   #21
TheSutterDynasty
First Line Centre
 
TheSutterDynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
The control arm of that study wore masks though. They couldn't have a non-mask control group, because it was considered unethical (that should tell you something). So the control group used standard practice which was a combination of cloth and medical grade masks in situations where masks were necessary. So essentially they determined that cloth masks are less effective than medical grade ones. Shocking...

Not to mention that's in a health care setting, which is going to have totally different levels and types of exposure than someone riding public transit or walking down the street.
You know you can talk about things objectively instead of going so far into an extreme that it spoils your entire argument. The control group is definitely odd in the study, but they compared it to standard practice and a small amount (2%) didn't wear masks. Don't use hyperbole and suggest no mask is unethical when it was never mentioned like that in the study.

Quote:
The physical properties of a cloth mask, reuse, the frequency and effectiveness of cleaning, and increased moisture retention, may potentially increase the infection risk for HCWs. The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks,29 and modelling studies have quantified the contamination levels of masks.30 Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible. For example, a contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer. We also showed that filtration was extremely poor (almost 0%) for the cloth masks. Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion and pathogen retention.31 These effects may be associated with cloth masks.
__________________
ech·o cham·ber
/ˈekō ˌCHāmbər/
noun

An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
TheSutterDynasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 12:48 PM   #22
Flamenspiel
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

I was in Home Depot yesterday and did see a big improvement in usage, it was in the 60% range, same with Canadian Tire. I think a lot if people want to wear them, it’s been the hassle and expense of acquiring them.

Of course there is a childish cohort of people(across all ages) that just want to push back to show they are in charge, that is a minority though.
Flamenspiel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flamenspiel For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2020, 01:03 PM   #23
looooob
Franchise Player
 
looooob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamenspiel View Post
I was in Home Depot yesterday and did see a big improvement in usage, it was in the 60% range, same with Canadian Tire. I think a lot if people want to wear them, it’s been the hassle and expense of acquiring them.

Of course there is a childish cohort of people(across all ages) that just want to push back to show they are in charge, that is a minority though.
I was in a similar store the other day and due to just an accidental change of trajectory I ended up within about 8 (?) feet of a guy (for half a second) as we were both wandering. We were both masked. He looked irate...he was wearing an Oilers jersey (which is coincidental- just added to my feeling of anger and or shame for somehow breaching his large zone)



I think many people are trying
looooob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 01:05 PM   #24
TheSutterDynasty
First Line Centre
 
TheSutterDynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
New cases and deaths in New York are down about 90% from 6 weeks ago, despite a weak law (masks are only required where you can't maintain physical distancing) and relatively poor compliance.

It's hilarious, the same people who want to open things up quickly are the ones most against compulsory mask wearing. If you want to get the economy going ASAP, there's a very clear way to do that with the lowest risk and it's through widespread mask usage. I guess the economic and societal damage that lockdowns cause stops becoming important if you have the wear a mask when you're out of the house.
The entire city was shut down. And you attribute the reduction exclusively to masks?

You can cover your ears and pretend masks will completely prevent the spread of Covid all you want, but there is a worthy discussion as to their efficacy given what some early research is showing with non single use masks and poor mask hygiene.

It is absolutely not clear that mass mask use is our lowest risk scenario. Some evidence suggests that it may actually increase risk for various reasons.

As I originally said, that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. But it is not as clear cut as you think.
__________________
ech·o cham·ber
/ˈekō ˌCHāmbər/
noun

An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
TheSutterDynasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 01:12 PM   #25
opendoor
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty View Post
You know you can talk about things objectively instead of going so far into an extreme that it spoils your entire argument. The control group is definitely odd in the study, but they compared it to standard practice and a small amount (2%) didn't wear masks. Don't use hyperbole and suggest no mask is unethical when it was never mentioned like that in the study.
This is a direct quote from the study:

Quote:
Standard practice was used as control because the IRB deemed it unethical to ask participants to not wear a mask.
So the control group used masks when they normally would (presumably based on the risk/exposure level of the various situations they encountered) and used a combination of medical and cloth masks depending on the situation. It's not surprising that they fared better than the group that wore inferior cloth masks the entire time. That doesn't mean cloth masks don't provide a benefit, just that they're not as effective as medical masks and aren't sufficient for health care workers to use, particularly in high-risk situations.
opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to opendoor For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2020, 01:21 PM   #26
opendoor
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty View Post
The entire city was shut down. And you attribute the reduction exclusively to masks?

You can cover your ears and pretend masks will completely prevent the spread of Covid all you want, but there is a worthy discussion as to their efficacy given what some early research is showing with non single use masks and poor mask hygiene.

It is absolutely not clear that mass mask use is our lowest risk scenario. Some evidence suggests that it may actually increase risk for various reasons.

As I originally said, that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. But it is not as clear cut as you think.
I never attributed anything to mask wearing in New York. You just asked how the infection rate was doing and I responded that it was down 90% in the last 6 weeks. Based on your question, I got the impression that you thought New York was an example of how masks don't reduce transmission, but I don't see any evidence of that. Can you come up with any jurisdictions with widespread mask usage that have seen the type of spread that's been seen in Europe and North America? I can't think of any.

Obviously other measures reduce spread as well; that is abundantly clear. With enough isolation and social distancing you can pretty much eradicate Covid without wearing masks. But masks are about the only thing that seems to dramatically reduce R0 without seriously compromising other aspects of society.
opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 01:29 PM   #27
corporatejay
Franchise Player
 
corporatejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Exp:
Default

Also, Bauer is producing masks, I picked a couple up. They are so much more comfortable than cotton. They are also relatively cheap.

https://www.bauer.com/en-CA/medical-...id=PPE#start=1
__________________
corporatejay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to corporatejay For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2020, 01:39 PM   #28
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty View Post
The entire city was shut down. And you attribute the reduction exclusively to masks?

You can cover your ears and pretend masks will completely prevent the spread of Covid all you want, but there is a worthy discussion as to their efficacy given what some early research is showing with non single use masks and poor mask hygiene.

It is absolutely not clear that mass mask use is our lowest risk scenario. Some evidence suggests that it may actually increase risk for various reasons.

As I originally said, that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear masks.
But it is not as clear cut as you think.
So why don't you wear a mask when you are out? You said you deal with patients all day, so you are at higher risk than most, then you go out in public without one? Seems selfish, no? Particularity since you are aware of proper masking procedures.
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 02:17 PM   #29
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Assuming worldometres is accurate - big surge in India deaths today - 1973 - I assume/hope some data catch-up.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 02:57 PM   #30
djsFlames
Franchise Player
 
djsFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Where opinions are fact
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
Really shows how a goal of zero cases would be almost impossible to maintain for somewhere like Canada.
Yup.

<50 daily new cases per province is pretty well the mark for successfully keeping it under control.
djsFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 02:59 PM   #31
bizaro86
Franchise Player
 
bizaro86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid...613706?cmp=rss


Good to have something working for the very ill.
My son was prescribed dexamethasone for croup last winter. He went from wheezing and struggling to breathe to completely normal airway sounds as soon as it kicked in. It was the most impressive pharmaceutical response I've ever seen in my life.

Hopefully it can have similar impacts on those very sick with covid.
bizaro86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to bizaro86 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2020, 03:21 PM   #32
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

https://rt.live/


Neat site for monitoring Rt of various states. Some have pretty large error bars. Also a good explanation of what Rt is:


http://systrom.com/blog/the-metric-w...nage-covid-19/
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2020, 05:22 PM   #33
Jiri Hrdina
Moderator
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

- 35 new cases found
- 449 active cases
- No new deaths reported
- 6,882 recoveries


Jeff Slack
@Jeffslack660
42m
Numbers in Edmonton continue to rise. There were 175 active cases yesterday and today that has increased to 190.
Calgary’s active cases dropped from 214 to 208
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 05:33 PM   #34
looooob
Franchise Player
 
looooob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

208 is Calgary zone,

City of Calgary is 190 active, to 185 City of Edmonton. essentially equivalent at this point which is interesting. the lines are going a bit in different directions
looooob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 05:35 PM   #35
agulati
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
Assuming worldometres is accurate - big surge in India deaths today - 1973 - I assume/hope some data catch-up.
Yeah I found that odd though. The official government website (which they list as a source) and local media is still talking about total deaths being around 9900. The second source they list has shown this tremendous surge.

India is approaching death numbers differently though, similar to most countries, and the true death toll is not being captured yet. Eventually there might be a data catch-up, and this might be it as well.
agulati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 05:40 PM   #36
agulati
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Some further searching makes it look like deaths have been added/reclassified, so it might not be a daily total.

It makes sense. Russia death numbers are really low too, though I'm not sure we see a correction on that anytime soon.
agulati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 08:36 PM   #37
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty View Post
I expect this from others in this thread but not you GGG. It was right in the post.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
The way I read that sentence is that there was a statistically significant difference between cloth and medical masks but not a statistically significant differences (just a significant difference) between cloth and control group.

Am I misreading that?
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2020, 08:24 AM   #38
transplant99
Fearmongerer
 
transplant99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Quaker Oats is retiring the more than 130-year-old Aunt Jemima brand and logo, acknowledging its origins are based on a racial stereotype.

"As we work to make progress toward racial equality through several initiatives, we also must take a hard look at our portfolio of brands and ensure they reflect our values and meet our consumers' expectations," the Pepsi-owned company said in a statement provided to CNN Business.
Aunt Jemima's appearance has evolved over time. The brand's origin and logo is based off the song "Old Aunt Jemima" from a minstrel show performer and reportedly sung by slaves. The company's website said the logo started in 1890 and was based on Nancy Green, a "storyteller, cook and missionary worker." However, the website fails to mention Green was born into slavery.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/busin...nge/index.html
__________________
Quote:
Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
Unknown Kings fan
transplant99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to transplant99 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-17-2020, 09:21 AM   #39
Hockeyguy15
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99 View Post
Sir this is a Wendy's.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
Looks like you'll need one long before I will. May I suggest deflection king?
Hockeyguy15 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Hockeyguy15 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-17-2020, 09:26 AM   #40
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

This has got to excite the NBA players to go to Orlando to play (or anyone thinking about flying):

Quote:
Gov. Ron DeSantis said 260 workers at the Orlando International Airport have tested positive for the coronavirus after nearly 500 employees were tested.

“[An]Airport in Central Florida had a couple of cases, they did the contract tracing. They looked [at] almost 500 workers [and] 260 people working close together were positive, 52 percent positivity rate on that one,” DeSantis said.
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo..._content=wkmg6
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 AM.

Calgary Flames
2019-20




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016