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Old 10-26-2020, 05:07 PM   #2921
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That's my point. How confusing is it going to get in a "social gathering" vs apparent "non-social gathering".
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:08 PM   #2922
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Not to mention one additonal Cohort (school/Sport) .. Does that mean either or. So Minor hockey is pretty much shut down.. or is it..
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:09 PM   #2923
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Stephanie Babych
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Hinshaw says we also need to reduce the number of close contacts that we each have.

There's a voluntary measure in Edmonton and Calgary to belong to no more than 3 cohorts:

1. Core, household
2. Small exclusive group of friends/family
3. One additional (sport, school)
I don't know if this has been talked about enough. I'm not prepared to add to or expand my current "cohort" unless I'm confident the other members of that cohort are following the same rules. And since we already have kids going to school in three different grades/cohorts, that's enough just for our immediate family, let alone adding in additional friends, family, teams, etc...
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:09 PM   #2924
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Not to mention one additonal Cohort (school/Sport) .. Does that mean either or. So Minor hockey is pretty much shut down.. or is it..
just voluntary measures though

I think again we are seeing a play out in this province of politicians vs public health officer.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:10 PM   #2925
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Since you never seem to back up any of your claims with sources or data, based on Public Health Agency of Sweden website (https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/...trol/covid-19/) Sweden has banned all public gatherings of 50 or more people. Not just at clubs like your post infers.

Their suggestions for restaurants/pubs/bars are also very similar to those suggested in Alberta. Alberta is maybe slightly more restrictive, but not so much more so than what is suggested in Sweden.

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But hey, an argument is rarely as dramatic if you use facts.
You can make the argument that things in Western Canada aren't really that different now, but we've relatively recently gotten out of a full lockdown, and may have to go back into one. Like I said before, Ontario and Quebec, where about 2/3 of our population lives looks well on its way back into a major lockdown.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:12 PM   #2926
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Sweden did just about nothing. They strongly restricted movement into and out of care homes, although this was probably not done swiftly enough.


I just don't get this? Are you saying that Canadians aren't making a big sacrifice with these restriction?

It's all a matter of degree, but the differences are dramatic. Sweden had no shut downs of school, clubs, churches, private gatherings. Sweden limited certain types of public gatherings to 50, but private gathering rules were looser.

If it really is your opinion that Canadians aren't facing restrictions, then what are you going on about. Shouldn't we be just doing what we want, as long as we have a mask?
You're getting closer. Go ahead and list what they actually did, and the movement rates of Swedes.

You got this, buddy.

And with this one, try to do it without the weird strawman about my opinion on Canadian restrictions, which I of course never said.

I believe in you. Show what they actually did.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:15 PM   #2927
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Not to mention one additonal Cohort (school/Sport) .. Does that mean either or. So Minor hockey is pretty much shut down.. or is it..
this is what the website says:

"Limit your cohorts to no more than 3: your core household, your school, and one other sport or social cohort"

It isn't school or sport. Never has been. It's sport or social.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:20 PM   #2928
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Some of my non-household family has tested positive and it has been traced back to:

- one 30ish person went to a gym last week, gave it to a 35ish cousin, who has passed it to his 65ish father (still awaiting the test results). The mother (65ish), the grandmother (90ish) are possible exposures, so far asymptomatic.

- one 65ish person went to a pub and later infected his wife (60ish) and kids and their spouses all got it (4 people around 25-35) over Thanksgiving weekend.

So from one single gym visit, at least 3 people are infected. From the one single pub visit, at least 6 people are infected. This is how it spreads.

FYI my household did not have any contact with them in the infection window, but they are all people I would have trusted and seen if the timing worked out... so that's how it happens to spread amongst "normal" people even living within their cohorts.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:22 PM   #2929
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"In the last 2 weeks in Edmonton and Calgary, social gatherings made up just 15% of all outbreaks but almost a third of all outbreak related cases. Workplace outbreaks made up about 15% of outbreaks and outbreak cases. In contrast, there has been only one outbreak linked to a restaurant in the past 2 weeks and less than 1% of active cases in Edmonton and Calgary are linked to exposures in restaurants."
I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction of "outbreaks" and "outbreak related cases" but I still have questions..

1. Why limit the rules to social gatherings if they're only responsible for 15% of outbreaks? What about the other 85%?
2. If workplace gatherings are also responsible for 15% of outbreaks, then why are they not also restricted?

With a virus that has the capability of growing exponentially, why would we aim our measures at anything less than IDK, 50%?
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:24 PM   #2930
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I'm confused, is hockey being shut down now, then?
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:28 PM   #2931
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I'm confused, is hockey being shut down now, then?
From the website...

"Limit your cohorts to no more than 3: your core household, your school, and one other sport or social cohort"

The only thing thats changing is that social gatherings are being limited to 15 (outside of cohorts).

I honestly can't fathom seeing a group of 15 anyway. I haven't seen more than like 4 people in the same setting in like 7 months. It will affect very few.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:30 PM   #2932
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
You're getting closer. Go ahead and list what they actually did, and the movement rates of Swedes.

You got this, buddy.

And with this one, try to do it without the weird strawman about my opinion on Canadian restrictions, which I of course never said.

I believe in you. Show what they actually did.
Lol...You're basically comparing Canada at it's most open to Sweden...yet ignoring the major near total shut downs in Canada. Even then Sweden is less restricted.

Canadians have made major sacrifices for these shut downs. You're lack of empathy is verging on the point of sociopathy.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:31 PM   #2933
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Some of my non-household family has tested positive and it has been traced back to:

- one 30ish person went to a gym last week, gave it to a 35ish cousin, who has passed it to his 65ish father (still awaiting the test results). The mother (65ish), the grandmother (90ish) are possible exposures, so far asymptomatic.

- one 65ish person went to a pub and later infected his wife (60ish) and kids and their spouses all got it (4 people around 25-35) over Thanksgiving weekend.

So from one single gym visit, at least 3 people are infected. From the one single pub visit, at least 6 people are infected. This is how it spreads.

FYI my household did not have any contact with them in the infection window, but they are all people I would have trusted and seen if the timing worked out... so that's how it happens to spread amongst "normal" people even living within their cohorts.
How do they know it came specifically from the Gym and the Pub? Businesses are the safest places to be IMO right now. Spread is coming from people being too comfortable with people they are close with, and social gatherings.

Last edited by the-rasta-masta; 10-26-2020 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:38 PM   #2934
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How do they know it came specifically from the Gym and the Pub? Businesses are the safest places to be IMO right now. Spread is coming from people being too comfortable with people they are close with, and social gatherings.
I suppose neither knows for sure...

the gym is a common place for transmission but this person did go to work in a somewhat public environment.

The pub was the Rose and Crown and that person never went otherwise out.

Are you serious the safest place is at businesses? I think the safest place is at home... with only your family there with you.

edit: I haven't been hearing about transmission happening from takeout food, or at grocery stores or Walmarts (except among the workers). So yes, I agree those types of places are safe-ish and a lot of transmission is coming from people being too close to others or having too large of social gatherings... but I know these people, and like I said, I would trust them and I know they are following all the guidance about that stuff. I'm just sharing my anecdotes to show that it is very contagious, and even when you do everything properly you are still at some risk.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:46 PM   #2935
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Lol.

...weddings and worship services aren’t ‘social’ gatherings?

It is hard to take this #### seriously when that’s the advice. “No! You can’t have a backyard party with your friends! But come in, come in, we’re about to preach and sell you on our new fandoozles!”
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:46 PM   #2936
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As a sidenote:

The speed of testing turnaround has really improved. I was symptomatically tested last Thursday at 2:00 pm and had my (negative) result to myHealth on Friday at 5:00 pm and received the text confirmation 40 minutes later.

Just over 27 hours from testing to results, pretty impressive!
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:47 PM   #2937
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Considering churches and weddings have been shown on multiple occasions to be super spreaders, it makes no sense that they don't limit those to 15 people.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:48 PM   #2938
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I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction of "outbreaks" and "outbreak related cases" but I still have questions..

1. Why limit the rules to social gatherings if they're only responsible for 15% of outbreaks? What about the other 85%?
2. If workplace gatherings are also responsible for 15% of outbreaks, then why are they not also restricted?

With a virus that has the capability of growing exponentially, why would we aim our measures at anything less than IDK, 50%?
Personal responsibility (TM).
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:48 PM   #2939
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The rule changes are confusing as is, so I'd imagine this will just add to it.

Does anyone have a chart that shows the hospitalization rates the last month since the case count started ramping up? Maybe per province?
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:49 PM   #2940
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I suppose neither knows for sure...

the gym is a common place for transmission but this person did go to work in a somewhat public environment.

The pub was the Rose and Crown and that person never went otherwise out.

Are you serious the safest place is at businesses? I think the safest place is at home... with only your family there with you.

edit: I haven't been hearing about transmission happening from takeout food, or at grocery stores or Walmarts (except among the workers). So yes, I agree those types of places are safe-ish and a lot of transmission is coming from people being too close to others or having too large of social gatherings... but I know these people, and like I said, I would trust them and I know they are following all the guidance about that stuff. I'm just sharing my anecdotes to show that it is very contagious, and even when you do everything properly you are still at some risk.
I own a gym (or a boutique fitness to be specific). Earlier in July we had two positive cases walk through our doors, we shut down for 6 days and had zero transmission after asking anybody who were in those classes to get tested. It was great to see that with proper protocols in place, spread can be limited. The fact is it’s inevitable for positive cases to be walking through doors at any business, home, or private gathering currently. The success story was that we can live variations of our normal lives if we are smart and follow protocols.

Business owners have the most to lose by shutdowns, or perceived lack of safety if an outbreak occurs. So most are taking extreme precautions to operate safely. And when you are in public or in a business, you are much more careful around strangers in terms of wearing your mask, keeping distance, and washing hands etc....

I see your story as more of a success story again for the businesses, as their aren’t many businesses listed as outbreaks currently in Alberta. However, the spread within your household actually came from people dropping their guard around loved ones and friends. It’s easy to say “Aw #### it, give me a hug” and that’s what’s concerning now which is why they’ve set up this limit on private social gatherings.

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