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Old 04-15-2020, 03:29 PM   #41
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:50 PM   #42
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Okay so the WHO has been accused of sucking up to and being a mouthpiece for China but if the US provides half the funding shouldn’t they be sucking up to the Americans? Or does China provide the other 50% and found ways to tip influence? I’m confused.
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Old 04-15-2020, 09:07 PM   #43
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the WHO sucks up to everyone in order to survive and continue to keep millions of poor mostly black kids in Africa alive, bastards!!!
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Old 04-15-2020, 11:48 PM   #44
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To the firing the firefighters comment. Imagine a firefighter showing up and saying “there is no use fighting the fire” as your house burns. Then turns around when it is half burnt down and says “now we should put water on it”. Then proceeds to cover the arsonists evidence to ensure no one gets caught.

WHO is your usual corrupt world entity. Lump them in with the UN and IOC. The real heroes are the doctors or athletes. These dopes trade favors for money.

Trump in usual ham handed fashion doesn’t move in silence. He should have let this finish and then do everything he can to punish China and the WHO by sending channels to remove the leadership.

This whole episode has shattered my faith in the CDC and WHO. I thought they were as credible as they come. Just another political arm. Very disappointing.
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:25 AM   #45
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I thought about the IOC as well. Corrupt, treat themselves like royalty.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:19 AM   #46
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Because that is how the US buys influence, it's known as soft power, if the US doesn't spend the money then no one cares what they want or think, by defunding its minimal payments to organizations such as these, and all of the US's payments to the UN cost less than a single destroyer for the navy, then the US loses massive influence in the third world that costs it almost nothing.

This is just another gift to Putin, it chips away at the US position of world leader
Yes. In addition to the suffering of people in third and developing regions, this is another case of the US stepping back from world leadership. It's very disheartening to see how many Americans think Trump has been putting America first and advancing their interests in the world, all the while he has been hacking away the trust and relationships at the core of American global influence.

Trump has been pulling the US out of one agreement providing soft power after another, and those implications are huge, with all countries that are restrained by American influence as potential beneficiaries. American soft power has been viewed as the most important and difficult to challenge advantage the US has. China can enlist a massive army and build high tech equipment, but soft power was seen as something that China couldn't rival. That power is being massively reduced by Trump, and China will be eager to fill the space they leave behind.

China is the most concerning beneficiary in my mind, though Putin also benefits. China is not skilled in soft power still, but it has been a high priority for national defense and economic planning in China since 2012. The Belt and Road Initiative has been their biggest soft power initiative, trying to reshape global economic and cultural relationships. Unsurprisingly, as part of the Belt and Road, China already has an alternative to the WHO that puts them in the key position of influence. Of course, there's also the possibility that if the US isn't going to fund the WHO, China could step in to fill that gap, save the WHO, take over that brand and existing relationships and expand their influence through it as well. Or, if the WHO collapses or is reduced, fund their alternative organization to step in and fill those gaps, continuing to build the narrative that Western institutions are failing but the Chinese model is there to make societies more stable and prosperous. Or maybe they do both, build their alternative while also stepping in as the savior snd generous benefactor to a failing institution of the previous world order.

In the US and in some other Western countries the narrative of China as the source of global disaster is growing now, but what's the narrative in other countries China is targeting to influence and bring into their sphere? China messes up a lot on these soft power relationships, but they are learning, and any American loss is their gain. The same is true for every other despotic or authoritarian leader that just wants US influence out of their region, including Putin, MBS, Duterte etc.

With the WHO, the US could call for an investigation, push for people to be replaced, push for new regulations and enforcement to strengthen the organization or to reduce Chinese influence in it. Hopefully they step back from defunding it and take that approach. Defunding it and walking away is both a terrible harm to populations whose health is improved by WHO work and a great gift to regional and global rivals to American influence.

If only Americans would wake up to what they are losing with every one of these clumsy, strong arm displays.
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Old 04-16-2020, 08:27 AM   #47
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Okay so the WHO has been accused of sucking up to and being a mouthpiece for China but if the US provides half the funding shouldn’t they be sucking up to the Americans? Or does China provide the other 50% and found ways to tip influence? I’m confused.
In 2016 the way the director of the WHO was selected change. In a nutshell, a short list of candidates was produced by the WHO executive board and then a private vote was held by the nations.

Tedros was the Minister of Foreign Affairs for Ethiopia prior to being elected. Keep in mind that during his reign as the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ethiopia was racking up huge debt from China. Like well over half of its debt is owed to China. In 2019, China wrote off interest payments as Ethiopia was struggling to pay back. This has caused concern about the so called debt-trap diplomacy that China is placing African countries in. Others see it as less nefarious and both parties benefiting as China's investments are helping these emerging fast-growing economies.

But the point is, Tedros in his role became an ally with China. Here's an article co-written by Tedros (as Ethiopia's minster of Foreign Affairs) and China's Minister of Foreign Affairs in 2014, essentially saying how great their partnership is. Again, you don't need to believe there's anything wrong, just that there's a strong relationship with the two countries. And as such China pushed hard to have him elected. The vote really came down to the UK's pick and Tedros. This isn't really a controversial take, allies voting for ally nominees happen all the time in the UN. Nothing isn't not-political with that organization. And of course there's a tit-for-tat, and in 2019 China's representative was elected as head of the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization with backing of African countries.

Obviously no one in the general public really cared in 2017 who the WHO director was though. And Tedros only really became noteworthy in western media when he appointed Mugabe as an ambassador shortly after his election. Pretty much every western country called it out as a joke or insult, including Justin Trudeau.

Mugabe of course was a huge ally of China. At least until the end of his reign. Which is why you don't need even fringe-conspiracy websites calling out the appointment as China flexing its muscle. Even the Washington Post speculated that this embarrassing appointment was payback from Tedros to China.

I don't know the bias on this website, but I think it takes a balanced approach to sort of what I discussed above.
https://www.africanews.com/2019/07/1...chinese-debt//

But mostly all of that could be overlooked as friends being friends. A lot of countries have good relationships with one another. I mean it's no secret that Canada will normally support the USA and vice-versa (right now we're a bit thawed). It wasn't until the so over the top ass licking (not even kissing) of Tedros for Xi Jinping and China that it became a bigger concern than just good relationships.

I mean, it was known that Wenliang had been imprisoned for trying to warn about coronavirus and Tedros got up and praised China's transparency. This is more than playing politics that it needs to to operate, this is payback. Tedros works for China, not the WHO.
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:15 AM   #48
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Yes. In addition to the suffering of people in third and developing regions, this is another case of the US stepping back from world leadership. It's very disheartening to see how many Americans think Trump has been putting America first and advancing their interests in the world, all the while he has been hacking away the trust and relationships at the core of American global influence.

Trump has been pulling the US out of one agreement providing soft power after another, and those implications are huge, with all countries that are restrained by American influence as potential beneficiaries. American soft power has been viewed as the most important and difficult to challenge advantage the US has. China can enlist a massive army and build high tech equipment, but soft power was seen as something that China couldn't rival. That power is being massively reduced by Trump, and China will be eager to fill the space they leave behind.

China is the most concerning beneficiary in my mind, though Putin also benefits. China is not skilled in soft power still, but it has been a high priority for national defense and economic planning in China since 2012. The Belt and Road Initiative has been their biggest soft power initiative, trying to reshape global economic and cultural relationships. Unsurprisingly, as part of the Belt and Road, China already has an alternative to the WHO that puts them in the key position of influence. Of course, there's also the possibility that if the US isn't going to fund the WHO, China could step in to fill that gap, save the WHO, take over that brand and existing relationships and expand their influence through it as well. Or, if the WHO collapses or is reduced, fund their alternative organization to step in and fill those gaps, continuing to build the narrative that Western institutions are failing but the Chinese model is there to make societies more stable and prosperous. Or maybe they do both, build their alternative while also stepping in as the savior snd generous benefactor to a failing institution of the previous world order.

In the US and in some other Western countries the narrative of China as the source of global disaster is growing now, but what's the narrative in other countries China is targeting to influence and bring into their sphere? China messes up a lot on these soft power relationships, but they are learning, and any American loss is their gain. The same is true for every other despotic or authoritarian leader that just wants US influence out of their region, including Putin, MBS, Duterte etc.

With the WHO, the US could call for an investigation, push for people to be replaced, push for new regulations and enforcement to strengthen the organization or to reduce Chinese influence in it. Hopefully they step back from defunding it and take that approach. Defunding it and walking away is both a terrible harm to populations whose health is improved by WHO work and a great gift to regional and global rivals to American influence.

If only Americans would wake up to what they are losing with every one of these clumsy, strong arm displays.
You don't think China is skilled in soft power? Their influence peddled:dollars spent ratio has to be one of the highest in the world. They just got what was supposed to be an independent international health body to blatantly lie to the US despite funding it 10X less, and I highly suspect as the months go on we'll hear about even more ass licking and track covering they did for China. What kind of self respecting country is supposed to just take that insult and then continue funding to such a high degree, it's asinine. If the US has lost soft power it's because they fund all these corrupt organizations with no oversight and no accountability. The WHO can have their 500 mil back when they depose Tedros and any other China lackeys and do a full audit of their organization, that's how you regain influence.
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:33 AM   #49
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^^Good response, even the CBC has acknowledged that this event is a China’s “Chernobyl”:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chi...-who-1.5531968
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:09 AM   #50
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You don't think China is skilled in soft power? Their influence peddled:dollars spent ratio has to be one of the highest in the world. They just got what was supposed to be an independent international health body to blatantly lie to the US despite funding it 10X less, and I highly suspect as the months go on we'll hear about even more ass licking and track covering they did for China. What kind of self respecting country is supposed to just take that insult and then continue funding to such a high degree, it's asinine. If the US has lost soft power it's because they fund all these corrupt organizations with no oversight and no accountability. The WHO can have their 500 mil back when they depose Tedros and any other China lackeys and do a full audit of their organization, that's how you regain influence.
How long have you been following this? You think China has been strong in soft power? Since when? It has been a high priority for China in the last ten years, but it has been a weak point and still is. It has been a huge edge for America that is deteriorating because America is walking away from international leadership by going “America first” and is creating the spaces for China to expand influence.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:30 AM   #51
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The only soft power gains that China and Russia have been made are a result of a power vacuum left by the Americans.

It's the end of the American century; the sun is setting on the empire
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:26 AM   #52
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It would have read pretty much the same if the virus had started in Kansas, this is an agency that relies on kissing its donor countries arses in order to keep several million people all over the third world alive through its various programs.

If it slagged off either China or the US those millions start to die of relatively preventable illnesses
When Trump announced the travel restriction on China, Tedros stated that it would “have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit”. That hardly seems like kissing American ass to me and is in pretty stark contrast to the PR that he did on behalf of China. Trump will probably bungle this this up, but if withdrawing WHO funding forces them to clean house, then I think that is a step in the right direction.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:30 AM   #53
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Everyone is now an international relations expert as well as an economist and epidimiologist.

I'm sure threatening to cut off major funding is going to have them 'clean house'. It definitely won't make the WHO even more reliant on China.

19 level chess here.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:31 AM   #54
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everyone is now an international relations expert as well as an economist and epidimiologist.
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the only soft power gains that china and russia have been made are a result of a power vacuum left by the americans.

It's the end of the american century; the sun is setting on the empire
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:01 PM   #55
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How long have you been following this? You think China has been strong in soft power? Since when? It has been a high priority for China in the last ten years, but it has been a weak point and still is. It has been a huge edge for America that is deteriorating because America is walking away from international leadership by going “America first” and is creating the spaces for China to expand influence.
Nah, it's been deteriorating because the US is guilted into funding all these organizations disproportionately while bad actor countries wield the true influence. Which is clearly what happened in this case, despite US funding which is apparently so critical to keep China from gaining control, China has control. WHO spread their bull#### far and wide, and apparently the solution is to keep funding like that didn't happen? How does that make sense, imagine how big of a bitchass you would be in your own life if you kept handing over money to someone consistently lying to your face. Only losers that loathe themselves or their country would support that. The US is rightly going to demand accountability for their dollars.

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Old 04-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #56
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It probably would have been more effective to reduce or cut funding to the WHO and put them on notice then 0 the funding.


But the WHO has been disastrous during this crisis, and China through their lies and deceit and cover up needs to be bought to daylight.
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:29 PM   #57
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My third year midterm in IR was on "how not to be a bitchass"
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:34 PM   #58
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^^Good response, even the CBC has acknowledged that this event is a China’s “Chernobyl”:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chi...-who-1.5531968
Actually they say "Chornobyl" which is an event I'm not familiar with.
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:44 PM   #59
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Actually they say "Chornobyl" which is an event I'm not familiar with.
It's the cheap Chinese knockoff.
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:48 PM   #60
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The Gates Foundation Pumps $150 Million Into WHO. I believe they were the second largest funder of the WHO after the US government even before this.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...al-coronavirus
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